Measuring Manny: Has he improved since 2008?

[Carpe Diem]

The video is Marquez centric because I'm setting up the basis from which we can draw comparisons on move forward. Marquez technique is the benchmark among Pac's latest opponents. There is a reason, Marquez has performed consistently in both fights against Manny, because of his superb boxing technique. Superb boxing technique adjusts to any style. Thus Marquez adjusted to the 2004 version of Manny, and the 2008 version of Manny who's right hand and timing were greatly improved by then.

As prove, during the opening bell of the first round, Lampley made his opening statement "Is it round 13 of the first fight, in which case Juan Manuel's technical skills could be the difference? Or is it a different fight because Manny Pacquaio has progressed so much as a boxer and has so developed his right hand in the 4 years since the first fight?", Lampley's opening statement.

Regarding Linear Attack Movement:
Pacquiao's movement was linear because Marquez was moving backwards. Pacquiao was not linear against Oscar, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, Diaz, Hatton because they were stationary. Boxing Science. I can't rotate to the right or left if my opponent is backpedaling because i'll move into his lead hand or counter. Pacquiao didn't have this concern when fighting his stationary opponents after Marquez.

Pacquiao could not move/rotate to the right because he was not connecting. Freddie Roach taught Manny to rotate to the left and/or right when after he CONNECTS the right or left hand. Pause. Go and look at footage of Pacquiao and Roach training. Roach is showing him to rotate when he connects. think about what you're seeing. Roach is standing STILL. Manny connects, then he rotates. Now, let's view fight film. Manny throws lefts and right straights against Marquez. Marquez is moving backwards- avoiding contact, Manny recoils his jabs and continues to stalk him. Manny can't rotate because he can't CONNECT, because of Marquez' movement. Manny continues to be linear, because Marquez is going backward. Manny can't rotate right or left after he misses because he'll be walking INTO counters.

On the flip side, look at the Cotto highlight, he was rotating left and right because Cotto was sitting still and Manny was able to connect. Cotto had no idea where Manny was because Manny had rotated away after he connected. It's simple boxing science. I've boxed for years, and bro, you can't rotate after a miss because a counter is coming and you'll rotate right into a counter.

Also, notice how Marquez is place holding Manny. When manny draws close, Marquez extends his left hand to hold Manny in place, that frustrates the hell out of jab activity. it's an old school technique Ali utilized frequently to measure stabilize his opponents.

[fabie]

The video shows exemplary breakdown but he shows that he is too-Marquez centric. In the fight he showed as a reference point, Pacquiao was only one-dimensional because:

• Pacquiao was almost always moving in a linear attack with a 1-2 or a 1-1-2 combo.

In that fight, Marquez would show his mastery of his range by backpedaling and countering:

a. Pacquiao's Right Jab with an outside left parry and
b. Paqcuiao's Left straight crosses with his own Right Crosses/Hooks.

But what Pacquiao have learned extensively after this fight is that Pacquiao was obviously coached to move on the OUTSIDE 45 degrees of any LEFT LEAD FIGHTER (orthodox) and counter with his "new" patented LEFT CROSS as a "jab":

• See Pacquiao throw this all night against DLH

Pacquiao also gained usage of the RIGHT LEAD HOOK:

• See Hatton, Cotto, DLH, Clottey and Margarito

But the Saien video shows that Marquez is smart and the usage of his space (by backpedaling) against Pacquiao's linear blitz. Pacquiao went up and heavier against "bullrushers" such as Hatton and Margarito.

They are right about that. But Saien concentrated too much on the 2nd fight with Marquez which obviously shows an "inferior" Pacquiao with his LINEAR KAMIKAZE ATTACK that Marquez can readily counter.

To be fair, Pacquiao did improve his:

• Lateral movements outside of opponents' left lead
• Lateral movements inside of opponents' left lead
• Lead Right Hook
• Lead Left Cross

But not against a Marquez type who "waits" to counter while backpedaling.

Did Pacquiao improve, of course he did, but not against a counter-puncher a la' Marquez with a right lead and knows how to counter.

Pacquiao improved much on his footworks against BULLRUSHERS and inevitably going nowhere but outside (the orthodox's left jab) and occasionally inside the left jab to cut across their right crosses.

That's why we need to see the 3rd fight against Marquez. To say that Pacquiao didn't improve is a farce. Though unproven against counter-punchers.

Thus also, we need to see Mayweather fight Pacquiao.

The video is Marquez centric because I'm setting up the basis from which we can draw comparisons on move forward. Marquez technique is the benchmark among Pac's latest opponents. There is a reason, Marquez has performed consistently in both fights against Manny, because of his superb boxing technique. Superb boxing technique adjusts to any style. Thus Marquez adjusted to the 2004 version of Manny, and the 2008 version of Manny who's right hand and timing were greatly improved by then.

As prove, during the opening bell of the first round, Lampley made his opening statement "Is it round 13 of the first fight, in which case Juan Manuel's technical skills could be the difference? Or is it a different fight because Manny Pacquaio has progressed so much as a boxer and has so developed his right hand in the 4 years since the first fight?", Lampley's opening statement.

Regarding Linear Attack Movement:
Pacquiao's movement was linear because Marquez was moving backwards. Pacquiao was not linear against Oscar, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, Diaz, Hatton because they were stationary. Boxing Science. I can't rotate to the right or left if my opponent is backpedaling because i'll move into his lead hand or counter. Pacquiao didn't have this concern when fighting his stationary opponents after Marquez.

Pacquiao could not move/rotate to the right because he was not connecting. Freddie Roach taught Manny to rotate to the left and/or right when after he CONNECTS the right or left hand. Pause. Go and look at footage of Pacquiao and Roach training. Roach is showing him to rotate when he connects. think about what you're seeing. Roach is standing STILL. Manny connects, then he rotates. Now, let's view fight film. Manny throws lefts and right straights against Marquez. Marquez is moving backwards- avoiding contact, Manny recoils his jabs and continues to stalk him. Manny can't rotate because he can't CONNECT, because of Marquez' movement. Manny continues to be linear, because Marquez is going backward. Manny can't rotate right or left after he misses because he'll be walking INTO counters.

On the flip side, look at the Cotto highlight, he was rotating left and right because Cotto was sitting still and Manny was able to connect. Cotto had no idea where Manny was because Manny had rotated away after he connected. It's simple boxing science. I've boxed for years, and bro, you can't rotate after a miss because a counter is coming and you'll rotate right into a counter.

Also, notice how Marquez is place holding Manny. When manny draws close, Marquez extends his left hand to hold Manny in place, that frustrates the hell out of jab activity. it's an old school technique Ali utilized frequently to measure stabilize his opponents.

One thing that I looked back and read this (for some reason I didn't know why and forgot to respond to your good analysis)...

That:

A. Marquez's style isn't necessarily "better" than Pacquiao now (previously yes) but Marquez's style is seemingly tailor-made for Pacquiao's old Kamikaze linear blitzes.

B. Pacquiao not only continued to progress stylistically and technically but also physically stronger albeit relatively a tad "slower" (keyword here is RELATIVELY from his previous past and lower weight).

Age is obviously catching up Pacquiao but in "nibbles"...due to his phenomenal DNA and physical regiments, we cannot say that Pacquiao is regressing. His speed has gone tad, that's a given, but to compensate that he has gained tremendous strength and technicalities.

I've seen latest footages of him (glimpses - since I bet that Roach is also protecting their "intellectual property" in terms of techniques and what nots) doing things that he previously hasn't - mainly his lateral movements.

I've posted previously that against most orthodox fighters, Pacquiao would "zone" to his right or his opponent's immediate left - in a 45 degree angle inorder to exploit the opponents' left jab. The opponents' left rib or left side of the face hereby are being exposed with Pacquiao's uncanny timing off the opponents' jab. He does the same thing against the opponents' RIGHT CROSS now too with the same outside-45 degree-angle "zoning" with his patented LEFT STRAIGHT CROSS or LEFT UPPERCUT or LEFT HOOKERCUT.

Now I've seen him go to his left against the opponents' RIGHT CROSS. Is it a "secret"? No, but I think that he would pull that against MOSLEY (aside from his patented 45 degree on his left (opponents' left jab).

Pacquiao's quasi-hop to his immediate left and outside of the opponents' RIGHT CROSS with those nimble feet is his "new arsenal". With that in mind, I think he can catch Marquez off-guard with this new angle.

Pacquiao has learned to be more of a counter-puncher now rather than just his usual kamikaze linear blitzes that your video has shown and your good analysis. Marquez easily backpedals while "forcing" Pacquiao to chase him instead.

Has Pacquiao turned into a counter-puncher now? Not necessarily, he is still his usual aggressive and high-workrate Pacquiao but now added to his arsenal is his ability to counter in the midst of his linear attack.

And with the added firepower behind his punches, it would be hard-pressed for Marquez to really beat Pacquiao in my humble opinion.

With the upcoming Mosley fight, I am still quite nervous about Mosley's very fast overhand RIGHT CROSS. I would assume Pacquiao to be on a high-alert mode in the early rounds and moving about while being busy punching, and WAITING for Mosley's big right hand before moving to his usual assault of vicious combinations.

But that's about it in the latest of Pacquiao's progress. A newly revamped Pacquiao physical-wise and technical-wise.

[SplitSecond]

and people say he didn't improve after the first marquez fight
he did better in the rematch, considering there was only one knockdown

although from 2008 it is hard to gauge, but i do think he has improved fighting on the backfoot, though physically i think he has declined

[Carpe Diem]

I can't wait to see it.

[Carpe Diem]

and people say he didn't improve after the first marquez fight
he did better in the rematch, considering there was only one knockdown

although from 2008 it is hard to gauge, but i do think he has improved fighting on the backfoot, though physically i think he has declined

Not bad, but it didn't credited some of Marquez's lands.


**cough**biased**cough**

[Carpe Diem]

This is easy to analyze. Marquez is a counterpuncher with a right hand. All others left hookers that come foward. Even when Cotto started to get on his back foot didn't make too easy for Pac. Pac right hook is a counter for the a left jab.

Pac balance has improved with his right hook, but his confidence on his abilities is the most improved asset

At that time, he was already in survival mode.

[SplitSecond]

Not bad, but it didn't credited some of Marquez's lands.


**cough**biased**cough**

who cares, it also didn't credit more of pacquiao's shots, and the way i saw it pacquiao would've had more in the end anyway

[fcastro1]

the one thing you don't really touch on is that no fighter that has ever fought pacquiao has been able to deal with his straight left not just his last few opponents thats a major advantage he has among others going into every fight

it's all very well saying that the reason marquez did better was because he wasn't a stationary target, that is true but he is a natural counter puncher he looks for his openings and is very fundamentally sound we know this

cotto and margarito just for example are come forward pressure fighters that are there to be hit still Pacquiao hit them more times in single rounds and all together then any other fighter has done that to me is impressive even if they are what they are

Marquez is a more complete boxer but Cotto and Marg hit way harder than anyone he previously faced

i like the fact you aren't riding the pac bandwagon but it's not that deep to say Marquez did better because he showed movement

and the way Manny has moved up and Marquez has aged can you honestly say you think their third fight would be competative i can't

pacquiao had tough fights with solis and a closer fight with barrera 2. you telling me the pac now is not better than the pac that fought those 2. please **** is obvious that he has improved you folks just dont want to believe it.

[Carpe Diem]

who cares, it also didn't credit more of pacquiao's shots, and the way i saw it pacquiao would've had more in the end anyway

I think the KD'ed caused Marquez this fight, and that happened because of his own reckless stubbornness. I don't care how great you are, but if you cannot stay on your two feet for 12 rounds, then you'll leave plenty of opportunities to lose your way out of the fight. I think Marquez losses both fights even though one was a draw.

[joelab75]

pacquiao had tough fights with solis and a closer fight with barrera 2. you telling me the pac now is not better than the pac that fought those 2. please **** is obvious that he has improved you folks just dont want to believe it.

a close fight against Barrera? wtf u watching? it was a shut out, 12 rounds to none in favor of Pac.