Measuring Manny: Has he improved since 2008?

[S IP U IR S xII]

well these *****s want everything settled with their ****** technical fantasies. they go like this...

"pac's opponents at higher weights were either shot, washed up, bum, or out of their prime...no biggie, he's not really that good. floyd will beat him 10 out of 10...they don't even need to fight. floyd beat him period."

on one side they're like...

"pac kos bigger opponents it's unbelievable. he can only do that with the help of peds he can't be that good. good thing floyd demanded ost. see pac refused blood testing...he's a cheater".

Thats too logical and is being objective....90% on here wont understand this and will feel better by giving you red "k".

[fabie]

The video shows exemplary breakdown but he shows that he is too-Marquez centric. In the fight he showed as a reference point, Pacquiao was only one-dimensional because:

• Pacquiao was almost always moving in a linear attack with a 1-2 or a 1-1-2 combo.

In that fight, Marquez would show his mastery of his range by backpedaling and countering:

a. Pacquiao's Right Jab with an outside left parry and
b. Paqcuiao's Left straight crosses with his own Right Crosses/Hooks.

But what Pacquiao have learned extensively after this fight is that Pacquiao was obviously coached to move on the OUTSIDE 45 degrees of any LEFT LEAD FIGHTER (orthodox) and counter with his "new" patented LEFT CROSS as a "jab":

• See Pacquiao throw this all night against DLH

Pacquiao also gained usage of the RIGHT LEAD HOOK:

• See Hatton, Cotto, DLH, Clottey and Margarito

But the Saien video shows that Marquez is smart and the usage of his space (by backpedaling) against Pacquiao's linear blitz. Pacquiao went up and heavier against "bullrushers" such as Hatton and Margarito.

They are right about that. But Saien concentrated too much on the 2nd fight with Marquez which obviously shows an "inferior" Pacquiao with his LINEAR KAMIKAZE ATTACK that Marquez can readily counter.

To be fair, Pacquiao did improve his:

• Lateral movements outside of opponents' left lead
• Lateral movements inside of opponents' left lead
• Lead Right Hook
• Lead Left Cross

But not against a Marquez type who "waits" to counter while backpedaling.

Did Pacquiao improve, of course he did, but not against a counter-puncher a la' Marquez with a right lead and knows how to counter.

Pacquiao improved much on his footworks against BULLRUSHERS and inevitably going nowhere but outside (the orthodox's left jab) and occasionally inside the left jab to cut across their right crosses.

That's why we need to see the 3rd fight against Marquez. To say that Pacquiao didn't improve is a farce. Though unproven against counter-punchers.

Thus also, we need to see Mayweather fight Pacquiao.

Sorry, i only agree with a small part of this video. He keeps repeating the samething over and over. No head movement and counter. Besides Floyd and JMM, who else even slightly resembles the ability to time and counter (Plese dont say Sergio.....too much size) effectly and consistent? To say that DLH was a bum is beyond crazy. Against Pac, yes he looked useless, and like a club fighter, and no one should make excuses that DLH was drained and a dead man walking. He agreed to the fight PERIOD.

Has Manny improved since 2008? Yes by leaps and bounds. So instead of just dogging all of his fights (and some are justified), include the fact that Pac has improved with both hands, and timing since 2008. Cotto is a top fighter, and being out smarted and worked by the best fighter in the world right now......comon now...really?

Bottom line is that JMM would not have the same success as he did in 2008. Pac is smarter, more patient, and has improved his ability to strafe.

Like the old saying goes......when your on top, people will always find ways to discredit you, and saying you are less than what you are. Guys like Floyd, Lebron, Kobe have been dealing with this forever. Just the way it is.

well these *****s want everything settled with their ****** technical fantasies. they go like this...

"pac's opponents at higher weights were either shot, washed up, bum, or out of their prime...no biggie, he's not really that good. floyd will beat him 10 out of 10...they don't even need to fight. floyd beat him period."

on one side they're like...

"pac kos bigger opponents it's unbelievable. he can only do that with the help of peds he can't be that good. good thing floyd demanded ost. see pac refused blood testing...he's a cheater".

There's no doubt that Marquez exposed Pacquiao technically in this fight. But likewise Pacquiao also expose Marquez's chin. He's been going down a lot. Even with Katsidis, he floored Marquez with a left hook.

So yes, technically, Marquez is really awesome. He reduced Pacquiao in this fight into a mere "chaser" moving backward and forward to be "chased" and countering Pacquiao effectively.

But Marquez also showed that when he pressed for an attack, that's when Pacquiao caught him with a left hook.

But with Pacquiao's multi-dimensional attacks nowadays in the form of his two fists now, Pacquiao would "wait" for Marquez to attack again and be the counter-puncher instead. And it won't be pretty.

To reduce or minimalize Pacquiao into a mere "combination puncher" is not seeing that Pacquiao has gotten technical also courtesy of Freddie Roach's regiments and the physical regiments of Ariza.

Gosh, I would love for Pacquiao to fight Marquez for the third.

[Pullcounter]

"Measuring Manny" is an in-depth evaluation of Manny Pacquiao since his 2nd bout with Marquez in 2008. This is a not a long write up, this is a video documentary with in depth fight footage detailing Manny's style of fighting, and his opponents.

• How much has Manny's boxing improved?
• Has the quality/skill of opponent he's faced improved since Marquez in '08?

i dare you to make a video documentary just as critical of floyd mayweather jr. then we will see if you are unbiased or biased against manny pacquiao

[Mugwump]

Since Pac teamed up with Roach his style has improved year after year. Freddie really ironed out Pac's defence - and it's a good job too because I think he would definitely have lost both Marquez fights without it.

For me Pac reached his peak against Cotto. Since then he's slid a bit. Against Clottey he got caught too often with vicious uppercuts (this must be the Achilles heel of Wild Card because Khan is wide open to them, too). Against Margarito he was committing the kind of defensive errors he had taped up 18-24 months ago.

Roach insists the Margarito fight is Pac's greatest win ever and that Pac still has two years at the top. But I wonder whether there is a slight feeling of unease. Manny is putting himself in harm's way like few fighters have done over the last twenty years - against guys who are naturally anywhere up to 15-20lbs heavier. Yes, he's winning the fights (convincingly). But when the size and power differential is so marked it won't take long before the damage becomes cumulative.

Manny has nothing left to prove. He has all the money in the world. If I were Freddie I'd be telling him to finish off Mosley (which might well be a VERY hard fight for three or four rounds), make one last attempt for Mayweather and then call it a day. Life's too short to risk it in pointless battles.

[Pacquiao'd]

floyd is going to **** pac up when pac takes those test

[Pacquiao'd]

Since Pac teamed up with Roach his style has improved year after year. Freddie really ironed out Pac's defence - and it's a good job too because I think he would definitely have lost both Marquez fights without it.

For me Pac reached his peak against Cotto. Since then he's slid a bit. Against Clottey he got caught too often with vicious uppercuts (this must be the Achilles heel of Wild Card because Khan is wide open to them, too). Against Margarito he was committing the kind of defensive errors he had taped up 18-24 months ago.

Roach insists the Margarito fight is Pac's greatest win ever and that Pac still has two years at the top. But I wonder whether there is a slight feeling of unease. Manny is putting himself in harm's way like few fighters have done over the last twenty years - against guys who are naturally anywhere up to 15-20lbs heavier. Yes, he's winning the fights (convincingly). But when the size and power differential is so marked it won't take long before the damage becomes cumulative.

Manny has nothing left to prove. He has all the money in the world. If I were Freddie I'd be telling him to finish off Mosley (which might well be a VERY hard fight for three or four rounds), make one last attempt for Mayweather and then call it a day. Life's too short to risk it in pointless battles.

and this is why videos like this are key for people like you. you are so misinformed. pac has improved, VERY LITTLE. but its been the selection of opponenets thats made him look like hes improved greatly, which is far form the truth.

i suggest you watch more boxing

[Pacquiao'd]

There's no doubt that Marquez exposed Pacquiao technically in this fight. But likewise Pacquiao also expose Marquez's chin. He's been going down a lot. Even with Katsidis, he floored Marquez with a left hook.

So yes, technically, Marquez is really awesome. He reduced Pacquiao in this fight into a mere "chaser" moving backward and forward to be "chased" and countering Pacquiao effectively.

But Marquez also showed that when he pressed for an attack, that's when Pacquiao caught him with a left hook.

But with Pacquiao's multi-dimensional attacks nowadays in the form of his two fists now, Pacquiao would "wait" for Marquez to attack again and be the counter-puncher instead. And it won't be pretty.

To reduce or minimalize Pacquiao into a mere "combination puncher" is not seeing that Pacquiao has gotten technical also courtesy of Freddie Roach's regiments and the physical regiments of Ariza.

Gosh, I would love for Pacquiao to fight Marquez for the third.

the fact that pac is even stronger now, im sure that JMM wouldnt "pressed for an attack." i think he would minimize his aggressiveness totally and be a nearly pure counter puncher. hard for him to do but im sure he knows thats what hes have to do

fact of the matter is that there isnt much improvement in pac but *******s seem to think there is b/c they dont understand boxing.

its come down to a very careful selection of opponents tailormade for pacs style. its that simple.

floyd will totally expose pac when pac takes those test. there is no doubt about it.

floyd will show how many classes above pac hes always been then the excuses will pour out for why pac lost

[Las Vegas,]

Very educational video for the fans who don't get to see the small things that make a fight.

I've been saying this for months, it doesn't matter if the fight is at 147 for Marquez. Marquez would still give Pacquiao problems and he knows this. In the end styles make fights, and Marquez has that style that will ALWAYS give Pacquiao problems. Yet people don't want to accept it. They think Marquez would get KOed in 3. It's a fantasy that they love living because their hero to them is unbeatable.

Also, I've said that Floyd-Manny wouldn't be a competitive fight. It won't be.

[p4p-champ]

He doesn't bull-rush as much anymore. You don't see him over-exerting that left anymore, he does alot more 1-2's than 3-4's. Hard to tell because he is fighting different styles but that dicipline he needed when going against heavy hitters will help against counter-punchers like JMM

He doesn't bull-rush because he hasn't had to. All these guys he fights stand in front of him or move forward looking to get hit. Bad technical fighters overall. Instead of bull-rushing the statues, he has restored to rotating them which is a brilliant move on his part as it usually leave them in a bad position and open for punishment. Only works well on statues though.

Manny is a physically gifted fighter who has always had his technical flaws. Although he has improved technically, it isn't anywhere near what people claim it to be. He's just been getting A+ grades on 2nd grade assignments.

[Carpe Diem]

Very educational video for the fans who don't get to see the small things that make a fight.

I've been saying this for months, it doesn't matter if the fight is at 147 for Marquez. Marquez would still give Pacquiao problems and he knows this. In the end styles make fights, and Marquez has that style that will ALWAYS give Pacquiao problems. Yet people don't want to accept it. They think Marquez would get KOed in 3. It's a fantasy that they love living because their hero to them is unbeatable.

Also, I've said that Floyd-Manny wouldn't be a competitive fight. It won't be.

Based on Marquez last two fights, i think Manny would destroy him. He seems to really want to mix it more so than using his other crafts to win fights nowadays.