Bernard Hopkins: Not an ATG?

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

Why would JT be a first ballot HOF'er?

Yes B-hop said he could beat SRR and go life and death with Hagler. But, to his credit he did say Monzon style and attributes were all wrong for him and that Monzon would beat him.

It seemed like an honest answer by him.

Seems you have more thorough knowledge of Floyd's going ons.

The first time he faced a middleweight with class, He got beat by roy jones jr.

The 2nd & 3rd time he beat a middleweight with class, He got beat by Jermaine Taylor. How can you call yourself a legendary fighter if you get outpointed by Jermaine freaking taylor?

All of his notable wins are against famous boxers from lower divisions. He beat oscar who is a career welterweight & was moving up from junior welterweight. He beat a undefeated felix trinidad who only had one fight at middleweight before facing hopkins.

People want to complain that pacquiao is a catchweight king when he only had one catchweight fight vs miguel cotto, well....

Bernard is the true king of catchweights,

catchweights vs oscar de la hoya, winky wright, & kelly pavlik. Even his other notable win vs a on his way to washed up antonio tarver has to be re evaluated. How great of a fighter will tarver end up? Not great at all. What were the circumstances surrounding the fight? Tarver had to lose so much weight after filming the crappiest rocky film of them all.

When bernard stepped up to fight his next classy opponent, he makes another fighter move up in weight joe calzaghe. What happend there?

He got slapped around & faked another one of his famous phantom injuries.

Beranard "Soapy" Hopkins, not as great as we think.

[Run]

"i will never lose to a white boy"

-bernard hopkins


I guess jermaine taylor is a first ballot hall of famer then.

I'm White.

Honestly I'd tell Nard to his face that made me laugh my ass off.

Do you guys really think he hates White people? Why did he go out of his way to hire/praise Mackey Shulztein for helping him move up in weight........and why would he Mentor Pavlik after beating him? His own agenda?

He has no agenda outside of building a legacy for himself, and that's nothing to be ashamed of in Boxing. He's done FAR more good than he's done bad, and also he's a hardened individual. So of course he's going to anger some people with his rhetoric, he goes against the grain.

That's who he is.



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[Bhopreign]

The first time he faced a middleweight with class, He got beat by roy jones jr.

The 2nd & 3rd time he beat a middleweight with class, He got beat by Jermaine Taylor. How can you call yourself a legendary fighter if you get outpointed by Jermaine freaking taylor?

All of his notable wins are against famous boxers from lower divisions. He beat oscar who is a career welterweight & was moving up from junior welterweight. He beat a undefeated felix trinidad who only had one fight at middleweight before facing hopkins.

People want to complain that pacquiao is a catchweight king when he only had one catchweight fight vs miguel cotto, well....

Bernard is the true king of catchweights,

catchweights vs oscar de la hoya, winky wright, & kelly pavlik. Even his other notable win vs a on his way to washed up antonio tarver has to be re evaluated. How great of a fighter will tarver end up? Not great at all. What were the circumstances surrounding the fight? Tarver had to lose so much weight after filming the crappiest rocky film of them all.

When bernard stepped up to fight his next classy opponent, he makes another fighter move up in weight joe calzaghe. What happend there?

He got slapped around & faked another one of his famous phantom injuries.

Beranard "Soapy" Hopkins, not as great as we think.

Youre pretty dense when it comes to boxing, I dont see anything you said that was really valid.

[Bhopreign]

I'm White.

Honestly I'd tell Nard to his face that made me laugh my ass off.

Do you guys really think he hates White people? Why did he go out of his way to hire/praise Mackey Shulztein for helping him move up in weight........and why would he Mentor Pavlik after beating him? His own agenda?

He has no agenda outside of building a legacy for himself, and that's nothing to be ashamed of in Boxing. He's done FAR more good than he's done bad, and also he's a hardened individual. So of course he's going to anger some people with his rhetoric, he goes against the grain.

That's who he is.

Not to mention the statement had historic relavence which is why he said it. Minter basically said the same thing about Hagler.

[jrosales13]

The first time he faced a middleweight with class, He got beat by roy jones jr.

The 2nd & 3rd time he beat a middleweight with class, He got beat by Jermaine Taylor. How can you call yourself a legendary fighter if you get outpointed by Jermaine freaking taylor?

All of his notable wins are against famous boxers from lower divisions. He beat oscar who is a career welterweight & was moving up from junior welterweight. He beat a undefeated felix trinidad who only had one fight at middleweight before facing hopkins.

People want to complain that pacquiao is a catchweight king when he only had one catchweight fight vs miguel cotto, well....

Bernard is the true king of catchweights,

catchweights vs oscar de la hoya, winky wright, & kelly pavlik. Even his other notable win vs a on his way to washed up antonio tarver has to be re evaluated. How great of a fighter will tarver end up? Not great at all. What were the circumstances surrounding the fight? Tarver had to lose so much weight after filming the crappiest rocky film of them all.

When bernard stepped up to fight his next classy opponent, he makes another fighter move up in weight joe calzaghe. What happend there?

He got slapped around & faked another one of his famous phantom injuries.

Beranard "Soapy" Hopkins, not as great as we think.

It seems to me like you making a lot of excuses on why he won. But, doing the same as why he lost IMO.

[check hook]

I am reading 'The Last Great Fight' by Joe Layden. In a passage concerning Bruce Trampler (manager of Bill Douglas - father of Tyson conquerer, Buster Douglas), the subject of Bernard Hopkins is raised.

'In the winter of 2005 Trampler got to thinking of Douglas one night while watching forty-year-old Bernard Hopkins, a revered and seemingly ageless middleweight, lose for the second time to a lightning-quick youngster named Jermain Taylor. A few days later Trampler dashed off an e-mail to Peltz, his friend and business associate, wondering whether he, too, felt that Hopkins, far from being a future Hall of Famer, was one of the sport's most overrated practioners. How many of the beastly middleweights who called Peltz's stable home in the 1970s would have dismantled Hopkins with little trouble?

Peltz responded quickly with a list of ten names...which included Bill Douglas...who ''would have bounced right hands off Bernard Hopkins all night long''''

So is Trampler correct? Was Hopkins just a stand-out of a weak era? Does his mental fortitude only prevail in the 90s and 00s? If so, which fighters do you think would have beaten him?

Fan of bernard but Toney and RJJ were better. McCallum was better. I also believe the Michael Nunn James Toney fought would have beaten Hopkins....there are other names that come to mind......but Bhop is still better than what these gents believe.

[Dick Buffman]

I'm White.

Honestly I'd tell Nard to his face that made me laugh my ass off.

Do you guys really think he hates White people? Why did he go out of his way to hire/praise Mackey Shulztein for helping him move up in weight........and why would he Mentor Pavlik after beating him? His own agenda?

Cuz Mackey was the best in the biz. And show me where he's mentored Pavlik outside of that superficial pity speech he gave him in the ring right after the fight.

You can't cuz' it never happened.


I've never seen a guy get so much praise for engaging in non boxing. He purposely goes into fights to spoil them and do as little fighting as possible while actively maximizing as much fouling and holding and mugging as possible.

Hopkins is anti-boxing.

[Run]

Not to mention the statement had historic relavence which is why he said it. Minter basically said the same thing about Hagler.

It's all so, so simple.

He's conscious of everything he says. He realizes that he can play the bad guy, because that's only going to draw attention. Once that is achieved, he simply picks and chooses through media outlets what cause he supports and the ones he doesn't. That's not an agenda, it's just being the Man.

His outside the ring politics are one of the reasons I praise him as an individual, in addition to him being aesthetically one of my all time favorite fighters.



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[check hook]

It is a big claim that he would beat Hagler, this I'm aware of.

But see, if you try and compare the likes of one Hearns to Hopkins they just aren't comparable especially being different fighters. Hearns had tremendous power and hit Hagler with everything, and almost to no avail at times. That's not how a blueprint is set to beat Hagler. It's clear that he could potentially be frustrated by a slick boxer. The idea that Hopkins is by no means chinny (Mercado was the only person who ever dropped him and it was more like an accident) I don't think he would have put Hopkins lights out.

Outwork Nard? Maybe but under modern judging criteria, I see him losing the fight because of Nard's ring generalship.

If a judge saw the fight thoroughly, one of them might have simply given Hagler the nod because of how aggressive he'd potentially fight.......but then again Hopkins has the capacity to be aggressive in his own right. He just elects to use the best facet he has to win a fight.

Not only that but he's not small. I mean he's over 6' tall and lengthy in his own right and uses his elbows on the inside along with his head....everything. He is king of being dirty in the ring.

If you put all of that together in my mind he begins to look like the most dangerous middleweight ever. I mean having watched him for so long now that's really all I can state.

Hopkins would have fared well against Hagler IMO.....Hagler was a small MW.....Nard is much bigger and chooses his spots well.

[street bully]

Cuz Mackey was the best in the biz. And show me where he's mentored Pavlik outside of that superficial pity speech he gave him in the ring right after the fight.

You can't cuz' it never happened.


I've never seen a guy get so much praise for engaging in non boxing. He purposely goes into fights to spoil them and do as little fighting as possible while actively maximizing as much fouling and holding and mugging as possible.

Hopkins is anti-boxing.

Hopkins doesn't have a racist bone in his body. Also he is the most skilled fighter technically since Whitaker.