Where Do You Rank Roy Jones All Time?

[Detroit Cobra]

If we are going all divisions, he gets into the top 10. He was world class for a good amount of time in the 90s.

[GOAT]

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I'm remembering a big fuss made out of Jones' big bump from their previous ratings, which supposedly was a result of him defeating Ruiz.

Anyways, I found a link to that ranking I was talking about (top 80 over the last 80 years), so here it is if you or anybody is interested;

http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/ring_80_best.htm

Thanks for posting that. I bet the authors of that list might have second thoughts now about putting him so high at 44. The ability to take a punch has to figure in those ranking somewhere, and Jones obviously lacks that ability. Jones getting one punch KO'd in the second round by Tarver and then getting knocked out by the light hitting Johnson should really cause people to revaluate his career. Look at the other guys on that list: Louis, Robinson, Ali, Greb, Monzon, Whitaker, Ray Leonard, Benny Leonard, etc. It just doesn't happen to the great ones, even when they have slowed down a little like Jones.

I still think top 50 is about right, though.

[Super_Lightweight]

hmm

Thanks for posting that. I bet the authors of that list might have second thoughts now about putting him so high at 44. The ability to take a punch has to figure in those ranking somewhere, and Jones obviously lacks that ability. Jones getting one punch KO'd in the second round by Tarver and then getting knocked out by the light hitting Johnson should really cause people to revaluate his career. Look at the other guys on that list: Louis, Robinson, Ali, Greb, Monzon, Whitaker, Ray Leonard, Benny Leonard, etc. It just doesn't happen to the great ones, even when they have slowed down a little like Jones.

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I could just as easily argue Roy should be even higher because of the success he had "despite" his chin. Conversely, I could add that Roy didn't have a bad chin or no one thought he did until he was older as a fighter and had put his body throuhg some real hell. Getting KO'd at the end of one's career should not cause any revaluation of Jones' career. Leonard took horrible beatings at the end of his career and it is only a matter of opinion that "great fighters don't get KO'd when their old". It's just not true, because when Roy did get KO'd, he was not the same great Roy he had been in the past. Or how about Whitaker who embarrassed himself against Carlos Bojorquez. Ali getting totally and utterly thrashed versus Holmes and Berbick. I could argue it's better to get KO'd than to be totally and thoroughly thrashed and embarrassed for a whole fight.

How a fighter is rated depends on the criteria. Does a fighter have to have beaten a certain amount of great fighters to be great himself? What if he lacks competition? Do you judge him vs the guys he has fought and think of what he would have looked like vs other greats? In my opinion who you fight is no more important than how you beat the guys you did fight. To say Roy is top 15 all-time is no disrespect to anyone, just respect to Roy.

[GOAT]

There was no indication that Roy was at the end of his career. In fact, he had just had his career defining fight against Ruiz.

You bring up Ali . . . Ali had Parkinson's at that point and the symptoms were so bad that he was visibly trembling at the press conferences and nobody could understand a thing he was saying (not to mention he was 40 years old and RETIRED). And he still didn't get knocked out, let alone one punch KO'd in the 2nd round by a guy every Jones fan was calling trash!

You really want to compare Ali and Jones? Then why don't you look at comparable points in their careers?

Ali, fourteen years into his career, after a forced retirement that resulted in a noticeable loss of speed and reflexes came back and had his career defining win against George Foreman.

Jones, fourteen years into his career, seemingly on top of the world had his career defining win against John Ruiz.

What happened next? Ali, although slowed by age and the creeping effects of Parkinson's, went on to defend the lineal heavyweight title 10 times, beating EVERY top contender available, including, among others, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Jimmy Young, Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle, and Joe Bugner.

Jones got one punch KO'd in the second round by a bean pole "bum" (again, that was the Jones fanboys' characterization -- not mine).

The next time someone brings up Ali and Jones in the same sentence they should be shot.

[Yogi]

I totally agree, Carpentier didn't do enough at the weight. Ted 'Kid' Lewis is the greatest European fighter ever, ahead of Carpentier.

I may have been a little hard on Carpentier in that previous post (but accurate with what I said), because the guy was a good fighter (quick, pretty talented and with an excellant right hand) and certainly deserves some props in the P4P scheme of things. It's just that if you delve into his career while he was near/at Light Heavyweight and look past what is simply on his record, it's really, REALLY hard for me to consider him one of the ten greatest Light Heavyweights of all-time. In fact, I don't even think I'd find a spot for him in the all-time top 25 or 30 at this weight.

[GOAT]

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I could just as easily argue Roy should be even higher because of the success he had "despite" his chin.

No. No, you can't. If you want to tell me that Jones had some of the fastest reflexes of any boxer P4P in history, I won't argue with you. But that doesn't make him a great boxer.

Jones was not even a good boxer, in terms of sound boxing fundamentals.

Jones didn't really know how or feel the need to slip, block punches, jab, etc., and he was always doing ****** **** like throwing lead left hooks and pulling straight back to avoid punches (which is exactly what got him knocked out against Tarver).

His reflexes have slowed somewhat, and that was what enabled him to get away with the bad technique and avoid punches in the past. Without the obvious advantage he used to enjoy with his quick reflexes, he's got nothing.

[Bozo_no no]

No. No, you can't. If you want to tell me that Jones had some of the fastest reflexes of any boxer P4P in history, I won't argue with you. But that doesn't make him a great boxer.

Jones was not even a good boxer, in terms of sound boxing fundamentals.

Jones didn't really know how or feel the need to slip, block punches, jab, etc., and he was always doing ****** **** like throwing lead left hooks and pulling straight back to avoid punches (which is exactly what got him knocked out against Tarver).

His reflexes have slowed somewhat, and that was what enabled him to get away with the bad technique and avoid punches in the past. Without the obvious advantage he used to enjoy with his quick reflexes, he's got nothing.

And with them, he's was unbeatable.

Roy had two losses at what now appears to be the end of his career at age 35. Why don't you look to the list you were so quick to point out and count the losses of the fighters on it after age 35.

You're not raising any good points, you're only making it clear that you get off on hating.

[Truth]

No. No, you can't. If you want to tell me that Jones had some of the fastest reflexes of any boxer P4P in history, I won't argue with you. But that doesn't make him a great boxer.

Jones was not even a good boxer, in terms of sound boxing fundamentals.

Jones didn't really know how or feel the need to slip, block punches, jab, etc., and he was always doing ****** **** like throwing lead left hooks and pulling straight back to avoid punches (which is exactly what got him knocked out against Tarver).

His reflexes have slowed somewhat, and that was what enabled him to get away with the bad technique and avoid punches in the past. Without the obvious advantage he used to enjoy with his quick reflexes, he's got nothing.

I think Roy's style is one of things that makes him great, he is orignal and wrote his own book on how to box.

[Super_Lightweight]

hmm

You bring up Ali . . . Ali had Parkinson's at that point and the symptoms were so bad that he was visibly trembling at the press conferences and nobody could understand a thing he was saying (not to mention he was 40 years old and RETIRED). And he still didn't get knocked out, let alone one punch KO'd in the 2nd round by a guy every Jones fan was calling trash!

You really want to compare Ali and Jones? Then why don't you look at comparable points in their careers?

Ali, fourteen years into his career, after a forced retirement that resulted in a noticeable loss of speed and reflexes came back and had his career defining win against George Foreman.

Jones, fourteen years into his career, seemingly on top of the world had his career defining win against John Ruiz.

What happened next? Ali, although slowed by age and the creeping effects of Parkinson's, went on to defend the lineal heavyweight title 10 times, beating EVERY top contender available, including, among others, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Jimmy Young, Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle, and Joe Bugner.

Jones got one punch KO'd in the second round by a bean pole "bum" (again, that was the Jones fanboys' characterization -- not mine).

The next time someone brings up Ali and Jones in the same sentence they should be shot.

You brought up Ali, and no, every Jones fan was not calling Tarver trash.

Your use of the term "fanboy" and "bum" shows you are no more than a Jones hater. Haters have knee-jerk reactions and nostalgia infections slike you just displayed. Any two fighters' names can be stated in the same setence. It's not like I said Jones' career trumps Ali's...you seem to take it that way though.

Calm down.

[GOAT]

And with them, he's was unbeatable.

Roy had two losses at what now appears to be the end of his career at age 35. Why don't you look to the list you were so quick to point out and count the losses of the fighters on it after age 35.

You're not raising any good points, you're only making it clear that you get off on hating.

1. You're completely missing the point.

2. I have never been and will never be a Jones hater.

I've always been a Jones fan, and I still am. Today alone, I have said that he is one of the best super-middleweights (if I didn't say it, then I'm saying it now) and light-heavyweights of all time and a top 30-50 all time P4P fighter. How the **** is that "hating"?! I'm just realistic about him and don't need to elevate him to God-like status to appreciate him.