Where Do You Rank Roy Jones All Time?

[Bozo_no no]

1. You're completely missing the point.

2. I have never been and will never be a Jones hater.

I've always been a Jones fan, and I still am. Today alone, I have said that he is one of the best super-middleweights (if I didn't say it, then I'm saying it now) and light-heavyweights of all time and a top 30-50 all time P4P fighter. How the **** is that "hating"?! I'm just realistic about him and don't need to elevate him to God-like status to appreciate him.

I can't comment on what you think you are or how you really feel about Jones, but the majority of things I've seen you post are (it would seem) purposly twisted and in a bad light.

This is evident in your long drawn out post when you created another thread blaming Jones for the current meidocrity of the Heavyweight division, talking about how he has no chin, and acting like the two losses after age 35 write off the earlier part of his career.

You're not just being 'realistic'. You're out to downplay him and his career, and clearly have an agenda here.

[GOAT]

Haters have . . . nostalgia infections slike you just displayed.

What exactly is a "nostalgia infection"?

Is it a disease that makes you consider history when deciding where a fighter fits into that history? If so, then I guess that makes me a hater.

[GOAT]

I can't comment on what you think you are or how you really feel about Jones, but the majority of things I've seen you post are (it would seem) purposly twisted and in a bad light.

This is evident in your long drawn out post when you created another thread blaming Jones for the current meidocrity of the Heavyweight division, talking about how he has no chin, and acting like the two losses after age 35 write off the earlier part of his career.

You're not just being 'realistic'. You're out to downplay him and his career, and clearly have an agenda here.

You're are obviously extremely over-sensitive when it comes to Jones, so much so that you missed the fact that the entire other thread you're referring to was "tongue in cheek". Not to mention that you criticized me for saying Ruiz should not have received a draw against Holyfield in the third fight because, get this . . . you think that Ruiz should not have received a draw . . . WTF?! Admit it. You don't actually read for comprehension. Instead, you just look at the title of the thread, maybe the first couple words, and then make up an opinion about what you think I probably wrote.

If that's not the case, then explain yourself.

[Bozo_no no]

You're are obviously extremely over-sensitive when it comes to Jones, so much so that you missed the fact that the entire other thread you're referring to was "tongue in cheek". Not to mention that you criticized me for saying Ruiz should not have received a draw against Holyfield in the third fight because, get this . . . you think that Ruiz should not have received a draw . . . WTF?! Admit it. You don't actually read for comprehension. Instead, you just look at the title of the thread, maybe the first couple words, and then make up an opinion about what you think I probably wrote.

If that's not the case, then explain yourself.

This is rich coming from a guy who replys with "Well if you thought Holyfield won, you're a joke", erases the comment, and then agrees with the post above saying "Yes that's what I meant".

I'm talking about this thread, and the amount of **** I've read that you posted.

If you're a fan of Jones, and have given him so much respect in your rankings, why stick around and bitterly argue with those who's opinion slightly differs from yours like your on some kind of mission?

[GOAT]

This is rich coming from a guy who replys with "Well if you thought Holyfield won, you're a joke", erases the comment, and then agrees with the post above saying "Yes that's what I meant".

"If you think it should have been a wide decision for Holyfield . . ." was what I said, which of course is completely different from what you just said I said above.

Here it is:

Well, if you think it should have been a wide decision for Holyfield, you my friend are the joke.

So, there you go again. Was that another mistake or just an outright lie this time? Why do feel the need to lie? Is it that you lack so much confidence in Jones and your own opinions that you feel the need to distort what other people say to bolster those arguments? That's sad.

[BadMagick]

No, I'm not. I mentioned his big wins: Ruiz at heavyweight, a green as grass contender Hopkins in 93 for the vacant MW belt and Toney in 94.

Since you bring up Griffin, though, you do realize Jones was struggling against him before getting DQ'd, right? Yes, Jones v. Griffin II was an amazing performance, but if Jones is truly top 10 or even top 20 or 30 P4P material he never would have been in that situation to begin with (against a decent, but not great, opponent like Griffin).

You do realize that he was on the upswing in that fight, right? He knocked him down the round before, had him down again, and, more thank likely, would have ended the fight with a later round KO, or TKO. Of course, that's speculation, but he was definitely on the upswing, and had figured him out. Griffen was good fighter, though, not great, as you said.

I don't know where I'd rank Roy, to be honest. From what I've seen, and based on potential, top 20. In a few years, he may be lower.

[AintGottaClue]

I actually started reading JUYJUY posts untill i saw he had a pic of eubank and this is a jones thread lmao. Spewbank sucks


and btw bozo that is a kick ass ali pic, one of his best moments

[Bozo_no no]

"If you think it should have been a wide decision for Holyfield . . ." was what I said, which of course is completely different from what you just said I said above.
So, there you go again. Was that another mistake or just an outright lie this time? Why do feel the need to lie? Is it that you lack so much confidence in Jones and your own opinions that you feel the need to distort what other people say to bolster those arguments? That's sad.

And why don't you post where I ever said anything about it being a 'wide' decision?

You're pretty good at twisting things.

Funny that you choose to adress the 1st part of my post, but not the 2nd:

If you're a fan of Jones, and have given him so much respect in your rankings, why stick around and bitterly argue with those who's opinion slightly differs from yours like your on some kind of mission?

[Yogi]

his career is based as a heavyweight most his fights was at heavyweight..and back then u fought alot more often and fought alot of "tough guys" who had no skill pretty much like tough man contestants

Oh man, I missed this response the first time by and now that I've seen it, I kinda wished I hadn't...I'll respond anyways.

Bro, pretty much everybody who has studied Charles' career to some extent all agree that his fighting prime was at Light Heavyweight. YOU may see him more as a Heavyweight because of him winning the title, but the truth is he was past his prime for the VAST majority of his Heavyweight career.

And the rest of your post is pretty much garbage, but I'm a sucker, so...Back then fighters fought more often because they needed to as a way of making a decent living in the pro game. The fighters back then were a very proud, well-schooled and hard bunch of men, who didn't know anything but to fight for their livelyhood. Unlike today's modern fighters, those guys didn't worry about how they were ranked in P4P rankings. Or how they were percieved by the paying boxing public. And they certainly didn't worry about their commercial edorsements, their lawyers, or would avoid a certain fight because they weren't getting enough zeros at the end of their check...Like fighters are suppose to do, they simply fought whenever an opportunity arose to do so.

And you want to say those fighters that Charles fought had "no skill" and compare them to contestants in a toughman competition? ****ing christ, that is one of the most ****ing ignorant things I've ever read on a boxing forum (here or elsewhere). Have you seen much of that era on film? If so, I gotta ask...WHAT fights have you seen from that era?

Well, you think about that, I'll get into a little bit about some of the fighters Charles defeated while at Light Heavyweight.

Anton Christoforidis - A former Light Heavyweight champion, this Greek fighter was described as being very solid across the board. He wasn't especially flashy with his style, but could do practically everything well. No weaknesses. It was only a few months after he lost the Light Heavyweight title to Gus Lesnevich by decision, that Christoforidis was knocked out in three rounds by Ezzard Charles...The ONLY time in his prime Christoforidis was KO'd (Ko'd twice at the end of his career and after a stint in the army).

Joey Maxim - Again not the an especially flashy fighter, but this HOF'er knew his way around the ring as well as anyone. A very smart and very tough fighter with a good left jab and right cross from range, and good hooks from the inside. As I said Maxim is inducted into the IBHOF, and was considered the 14th greatest Light Heavyweight of all-time by The Ring. Charles decision Maxim twice as a Light Heavyweight, and another three times at Heavyweight.

Jimmy Bivins - This guy blows your "no skills" comment up, because it's obvious from the film that Bivins was exceptionally talented. A very classy and smooth looking boxer, who had one of the very best jabs that the Light Heavyweight division has ever seen. He also had great footwork and was a tough guy to hit cleanly because of that and his excellant defense. Good power too for a classic boxer. This HOF'er was ranked as the 6th greatest Light Heavyweight of all-time by The Ring, and is also ranked as the 18th greatest by the IBRO. Bivins decisioned Charles the first time they met (pre-war), but Ezzard won their last three meeting including once by KO. Sad story came out a couple of years ago about Bivins and how he was treated by his family, but that's for another time.

Lloyd Marshall - One of the prominant members of the famed Murderer's Row of the 40's, which was a excellant group of west coast fighters that were usually avoided by the very top guys, so they resorted to fighting each other (Bivins was also a part of that scene). I've never seen Marshall, but by all the accounts and descriptions, he was a very talented and quick boxer/puncher, who defeated many HOF'ers throughout his career. Marshall stopped Charles the first time they met (again pre-war), but again Ezzard evened the score and then some, by stopping Marshall in two other meetings. There are many who think Marshall should join Charles in the IBHOF, and one of these days

Elmer 'Violent' Ray - Ray was obviously a Heavyweight, but since Charles weighed in under the Light Heavyweight limit when he fought him, to me that counts on his Light Heavyweight ledger. Ray was one of the absolute scariest and hardest hitting Heavyweights of that era of the 40's, and there's even been printed rumours that Joe Louis was very reluctant to face him. A BAD man by all descriptions, and was the #2 ranked Heavyweight contender when Charles first stepped into the ring with him. Ray won the first fight by a controversial decision, but in the rematch Charles left little doubt as to who was the better man when he stopped Ray in the ninth round.

Who else is there on Charles' Light Heavyweight ledger? Oh yeah, you might've heard of this guy;

Archie Moore - Do I really need to describe this Light Heavyweight legend to anybody? Some consider him to be the greatest Light Heavyweight of all-time, which is the position he gained when the IBRO conducted a poll of their members. Moore also gained a #2 all-time ranking from The Ring in this division (behind Charles). Charles faced Moore three times and dominated Moore three times, including one by one-sided knockout.

Those are only a very brief description of Charles' most famous opponents at Light Heavyweight (check their records and notice the quality on each of their ledgers...like the HOF'ers they faced and defeated), but they're not the only quality oppoents Charles faced. A little bit of research from you will show that fighters like Booker Beckwith, Mose Brown, Oakland Billy Smith, Fitzie Fitzpatrick, and Sam Baroudi, were all thought of highly in their day and were ranked as a top ten Light Heavyweight contender when Charles beat them (boxrec has the annual ratings from the 40's, so go big). And I could mentioen that he twice handled the great, Charley Burley quite easily early in Charles' career (Burley was a Murderer's Row memeber, HOF'er, and is often called the best/most talented fighter to have never won a world title) but since those were at Middleweight, they get a passing mention from me.

In my opinion, Ezzard Charles is the greatest Light Heavyweight of all-time. I tried to describe his opposition a little bit, but Charles shown himself to have been a ****ing magnificent boxing talent...Great quickness of both hand and foot, great boxing technique, great reflexes, great balance, and also very good power (he altered his style a bit to more of a boxer type after Baroudi died after facing him)...Ezzard Charles was an absolutely GREAT fighting talent, and the best Ezzard Charles that was ever seen, was when he weighed in under 175 lbs.

Just don't hold the fact that he never held the Light Heavyweight title against him, because those were completely different times. First off, the titles were frozen for about five years during the war and nobody got the chance. And secondly, the boxing community was just starting to lift the racism that was so prevailant in the past, and they limited the amount of black fighters who got the chance at a title. And the ones who did get a chance were fighters who were exceptionally popular and could draw in the big money crowds (Louis and Robinson were extremely popular during that time). Charles was never very popular and despite his obvious abundance of skill, he never especially exciting as a fighter, so promoters weren't in a hurry to grant him a title shot at Light Heavyweight (although he did prove his superioty over Lesnevich a few years later)...But he was about as skilled and effective as they come.

Sorry for the long-winded rant, but those fighters deserve more respect than that.

[AintGottaClue]

where would u guys rank jones not all time but divsion, would u rank him in the middleweight or light heavy?