Where Do You Rank Roy Jones All Time?

[Yogi]

Yeah, someone recently posted Ring's all time pound for pound rankings. It was fairly recent, if I recall correctly.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I'm remembering a big fuss made out of Jones' big bump from their previous ratings, which supposedly was a result of him defeating Ruiz.

Anyways, I found a link to that ranking I was talking about (top 80 over the last 80 years), so here it is if you or anybody is interested;

http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/ring_80_best.htm

[SonnyG8R]

Calling Griffin a legitimate defeat is laughable. Anyone who saw that fight knows that.

[GasPed]

Here's what a very knowledgable journalist wrote...


1: Moore: Over looked for years probably because of his colour, he finally got his World Championship shot aged 35 to 38 (no one is quite sure), but what is certain is that he won the World Championship and reigned undefeated for 10 years.

2: Charles: Went 3 and 0 as a Light Heavy over Moore, also beat fighters the calibre of Maxim, Burley and Christoforidis.

3: Tunney: Great fighter who fought the cream of the Light Heavyweight division, only losing to Harry Grebb, a defeat that he avenged
.
4: Spinks: Was unbeaten as a Light Heavyweight, through the divisions’ strongest era, becoming the World Champion for two years.

5: Roosenbloom: Slapsie Maxim had an incredible 300 fights in 16 years, but of his 210 (216 if you include Newspaper decisions) wins he scored only 19 stoppages. Beat the likes of Walker, Slattery, Braddock and Lewis, and was World champion for four years.

6: Foster: After an undistinguished start to his career, rebounded by pole axing the World Championship from **** Tiger, and reigning undefeated for six years.

7: Conn: Reigned as undefeated World Light Heavyweight champ for three years, beating the likes of Zale, Lesnevich and Young CorbettIII.

8: Grebb: As a Light Heavy only person to beat Gene Tunney; also beat Loughran.

9: Carpentier: At his best as a 175lber; won the World Championship in 1920, reigned for over 2 years, beat Ted Lewis and Levinsky.

10: Fitzsimmons: The first Light Heavyweight (then known in Britain as Cruiserweight) World Champion, to legitimise the young division, had a two year reign, but in reality fought even his Heavyweight bouts as a (Small) 175lber, rarely scaling above 170.

11: Loughran: Two year unbeaten reign as Light Heavyweight World Champ, beat the likes of Braddock, Stribling, Carpentier, McTigue, Walker and Slattery.

12: Michalczewski: Long time World Champion; won title off of Hill, beat everyone put in front of him for six years, before finally dropping crown

13: Muhammad (Matt Saad): Treated the world to a thrilling 2 year title reign, with classic fights galore, in the strongest era of the division.

14: Hill: Multiple titleholder, became World Champ beating the undefeated Maske; met everyone that mattered in his era.

15: Johnson (Harold) Great Light Heavy of the 50s and early 60s, unlucky to be around in Moore’s era, finally won World Championship in 1961, kept title for two years.

16: Maxim: Won World Championship off of Freddie Mills, also beat Lesnevich, Patterson and perhaps most famously Sugar Ray Robinson as a 175lber.

17: Tiger: Two-year reign as Light Heavyweight World Champ, only stopped by Bob Foster

18: Qawi: Fought in the division’s toughest era, only coming up short , in his prime, to Spinks.

19: Maske: Dominant titleholder, whose only defeat was to prime Virgil Hill

20: Jones: Had a dominant title reign, avenging a defeat to Griffin.


(just about sneeking Jones in lol).

Here's the deal - I am positive that none of the guys on that list would have beaten Roy Jones in his prime. Not one. But I grant you that some of them had achievements that were more noteworthy than his, if you're strictly looking at the numbers. I also give the benefit of the doubt to the early fighters, for whom we have to rely upon literary accounts for most of them to determine their skill level.

Having said all that, your list is crap. Anyone who thinks Spinks, Foster, Michalczewski, Matthew Saad, Hill, Maske and Qawi were better than Jones is either blind, bitter or both. Yes, their records may have been better (in some cases), but Jones in his prime takes all of them easily. These are guys that anyone can easily dig up some footage of and watch (well it's a little harder to get Maske footage, but I've seen some), so there are no excuses. Watch the tape and then tell me with a straight face that you think these guys are better.

And if you do, you'll just confirm my su****ions of you.

[Yogi]

Here's what a very knowledgable journalist wrote...


1: Moore: Over looked for years probably because of his colour, he finally got his World Championship shot aged 35 to 38 (no one is quite sure), but what is certain is that he won the World Championship and reigned undefeated for 10 years.

2: Charles: Went 3 and 0 as a Light Heavy over Moore, also beat fighters the calibre of Maxim, Burley and Christoforidis.

3: Tunney: Great fighter who fought the cream of the Light Heavyweight division, only losing to Harry Grebb, a defeat that he avenged
.
4: Spinks: Was unbeaten as a Light Heavyweight, through the divisions’ strongest era, becoming the World Champion for two years.

5: Roosenbloom: Slapsie Maxim had an incredible 300 fights in 16 years, but of his 210 (216 if you include Newspaper decisions) wins he scored only 19 stoppages. Beat the likes of Walker, Slattery, Braddock and Lewis, and was World champion for four years.

6: Foster: After an undistinguished start to his career, rebounded by pole axing the World Championship from **** Tiger, and reigning undefeated for six years.

7: Conn: Reigned as undefeated World Light Heavyweight champ for three years, beating the likes of Zale, Lesnevich and Young CorbettIII.

8: Grebb: As a Light Heavy only person to beat Gene Tunney; also beat Loughran.

9: Carpentier: At his best as a 175lber; won the World Championship in 1920, reigned for over 2 years, beat Ted Lewis and Levinsky.

10: Fitzsimmons: The first Light Heavyweight (then known in Britain as Cruiserweight) World Champion, to legitimise the young division, had a two year reign, but in reality fought even his Heavyweight bouts as a (Small) 175lber, rarely scaling above 170.

11: Loughran: Two year unbeaten reign as Light Heavyweight World Champ, beat the likes of Braddock, Stribling, Carpentier, McTigue, Walker and Slattery.

12: Michalczewski: Long time World Champion; won title off of Hill, beat everyone put in front of him for six years, before finally dropping crown

13: Muhammad (Matt Saad): Treated the world to a thrilling 2 year title reign, with classic fights galore, in the strongest era of the division.

14: Hill: Multiple titleholder, became World Champ beating the undefeated Maske; met everyone that mattered in his era.

15: Johnson (Harold) Great Light Heavy of the 50s and early 60s, unlucky to be around in Moore’s era, finally won World Championship in 1961, kept title for two years.

16: Maxim: Won World Championship off of Freddie Mills, also beat Lesnevich, Patterson and perhaps most famously Sugar Ray Robinson as a 175lber.

17: Tiger: Two-year reign as Light Heavyweight World Champ, only stopped by Bob Foster

18: Qawi: Fought in the division’s toughest era, only coming up short , in his prime, to Spinks.

19: Maske: Dominant titleholder, whose only defeat was to prime Virgil Hill

20: Jones: Had a dominant title reign, avenging a defeat to Griffin.


(just about sneeking Jones in lol).

Dude, that list didn't look all that bad until I got to the 9th spot...George Carpentier the 9th greatest Light Heavyweight of all-time?

I wonder if that "very knowledgable journalist" was aware that Carpentier's title winning effort against Levinsky is most often thought of a dive by the defending champion (who recieved a VERY nice payday for his trouble), just so the popular Frenchman could go on and have a mega fight with Dempsey. And I also wonder if that "very knowledgable journalist" ever saw that fight with Lewis, when Carpentier nailed Lewis on the break when the 'Kid' wasn't even looking (he was looking at the ref).

That's only touching on the two fights that guy refered to, but I could go into other things about Carpentier and his fights, as well (I'll expand if asked, I guess). But in my opinion, George Carpentier was nothing but an overrated and popular media creation, who benefitted MANY times by both very biased officiating and crooked promoters with deep pockets.

Wait a second here...Carpentier over Tommy Loughran? LO-****ing-L!

[Super Cruiserweight]

RJJ had speed,skills,smartness,reflexes nd power that i havent seen before. his mixture of all that is what makes him v.v.special. RJs punchpower is underrated IMO,julian Jackson failed to knockout thomas tate,tate went the distance w/jackson but RJ stopped Tate after two rounds in i think it was the same yr.Nobody had ever kod virgil Hill,not Darius M,RJJ was the first and last to knockout Hill.have we forgot that Roy beat the p4p no.1 at the time in JToney and he beat BHOP who hasnt lost since.another HOFer he beat was Mccallum.his quality of opposition is superb-Hop,JT,Vinny Paz,Mccallum,Hill.

U have to rate Roy high P4P,top 50 at the v.least !

[Super Cruiserweight]

Roy reigned p4p no.1 for a decade of yrs.who the **** has ever done that before ?? Who else could beat five left handers in a row like Roy did ? Who else could throw five left handers in a row like Roy did ? Lol the guy was tops. Id have him top 10 of the past 30 yrs w/out any doubt whatsoever just based on how ****in good he looked !

[JUYJUY]

Dude, that list didn't look all that bad until I got to the 9th spot...George Carpentier the 9th greatest Light Heavyweight of all-time?

I wonder if that "very knowledgable journalist" was aware that Carpentier's title winning effort against Levinsky is most often thought of a dive by the defending champion (who recieved a VERY nice payday for his trouble), just so the popular Frenchman could go on and have a mega fight with Dempsey. And I also wonder if that "very knowledgable journalist" ever saw that fight with Lewis, when Carpentier nailed Lewis on the break when the 'Kid' wasn't even looking (he was looking at the ref).

That's only touching on the two fights that guy refered to, but I could go into other things about Carpentier and his fights, as well (I'll expand if asked, I guess). But in my opinion, George Carpentier was nothing but an overrated and popular media creation, who benefitted MANY times by both very biased officiating and crooked promoters with deep pockets.

Wait a second here...Carpentier over Tommy Loughran? LO-****ing-L!

I totally agree, Carpentier didn't do enough at the weight. Ted 'Kid' Lewis is the greatest European fighter ever, ahead of Carpentier.

[Truth]

What the ****? Jordan played in one of the most talented eras ever. There are literally dozens of legends that he played against. They all had the misfortune of playing against the greatest ever, though. Reggie Johnson, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Clyde Drexler, Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Hakeem Olajuwon... the list goes on, man. Several of those names are considered one of the greatest ever at their positions. Someone would have to be a ****ing moron to say Jordan wasn't the greatest ever.

Sorry, but that was a TERRIBLE comparison.

Your right just a mental error on my part. You got to calm down though!

[GOAT]

You're like the guys who talk about the DQ against Griffen. You fail to acknowledge the other fight that he won.

No, I'm not. I mentioned his big wins: Ruiz at heavyweight, a green as grass contender Hopkins in 93 for the vacant MW belt and Toney in 94.

Since you bring up Griffin, though, you do realize Jones was struggling against him before getting DQ'd, right? Yes, Jones v. Griffin II was an amazing performance, but if Jones is truly top 10 or even top 20 or 30 P4P material he never would have been in that situation to begin with (against a decent, but not great, opponent like Griffin).

[GOAT]

He didn't avoid 'most' of the top 168 guys, he avoided ALL of the top 168 guys. Also, the only IBF #1 contender he fought at 160 or 168 was Bryant Brannon in his last fight as a 160-168 fighter (Bryant who?).

I was trying to be fair. Jones did fight Toney, who (despite all of his weight problems, which I do believe played a huge part in his loss to Jones), was not exactly a slouch at 168.

Sure, Toney was completely weight drained for that fight, but that's not Jones's fault.