When floyd says "one demensional" i know exactly what he means, come read

[Brandish]

Pacquiao is greater than Floyd in terms of legacy and this is a great match-up in which I think Floyd will have his hand raised at the end of the day.

based on what criteria did you come to this assessment.

was it pacs five title defenses vs floyd's 12. was it pacs five titles in five weigt classes to floyds 5 titles in five weight classes.

how is pac's legacy greater in your eyes

[josenoway]

lol, I spit out my coke when I read that 'complete fighter' part.

lol @ the most respected posters on here giving good arguments, counter arguments and deep analysis, some of the people in here i can tell have actually been in the ring and you come with this ****.

Not a very insightful analysis

You missed one crucial element, Mayweather has never faced a more complete fighter than Manny Pacquiao. He is the culmination of power and speed. His pressure and intensity is second to none. Most of all, no boxer in the world has the stamina that the Pacman has. He can continuously stalk and punch for 15 rounds straight. Most of PBF's opponents were inferior in this department, and they run out of gas before they can slow Mayweather down. Manny will not! And the strategy against PBF is not head-hunting but all-angle punching against every part of the upper body. There ain't no running from that!!

[Parody]

based on what criteria did you come to this assessment.

was it pacs five title defenses vs floyd's 12. was it pacs five titles in five weigt classes to floyds 5 titles in five weight classes.

how is pac's legacy greater in your eyes

Based on resume.

Top 12 on Pacquiao's resume:

Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez
Miguel Cotto
Ricky Hatton
Oscar De La Hoya
Oscar Larios
Lehlohonolo Ledwaba
Nedal Hussein
David Diaz
Chatchai Sasakul
Jorge Eliecer Julio


Top 12 on Floyd's resume:

Diego Corrales
Ricky Hatton
Jose Luis Castillo
Oscar De La Hoya
Zab Judah
Carlos Baldomir
Sharmba Mitchell
Arturo Gatti
Juan Manuel Marquez
Genaro Hernandez
Jesus Chavez
Carlos Hernandez

Both of them are ATG, but Pacquiao's legacy is better than Mayweather unless Floyd beats him in the ring, which he will IMO.

[MaD RoBoT]

based on what criteria did you come to this assessment.

was it pacs five title defenses vs floyd's 12. was it pacs five titles in five weigt classes to floyds 5 titles in five weight classes.

how is pac's legacy greater in your eyes

go back to your cave & play gameboy

[4773Y350NM3]

This isnt a disrespect to pac, Pacs legacy is currently ahead of floyds. If you know me, im not a hater, i have respected and followed pac longer than alot of you likely reading this thread


. But when he says one demensional, i know what he means. Pacs diversity and angles are almost entirely offensive, and most of them come from when an opponent is stationary and attempting to trade. Alot of what he does works when an opponent is standing in front of him. For example, cotto was on the move, and jabbing, pac did absolutely nothing. All of the angles, diversity and his fantastic right hand are only effective if you are standing front of him either waiting for it or in the middle of an exchange. You take that away, and you can see floyds point.

Think about this. A guy like floyd who can take you inside, outside, move and throws every punch in the book, is extremely diverse. People keep talking about the shoulder roll like its his only defense, this guy gives you a different look practically every round. Also, people talk about pacs "improved defense", im not really seeing that. What i see is a grade A chin and a mountain of punch resistence. What i also see is cotto, moved, jabbed, even when he had nothing, still snapped pacs head back, technicians like floyd see that stuff a mile away. Cotto also connected with looping arm punches that had no buisness connecting. Mayweather can also take the fight inside and he needs virtually no room to punch, ive yet to see pac in a phonebooth.

Another thing that has to be noted. When pac moves his head to the right, the left hand over the top comes in every single time, cotto actually took a step back and threw a straight and stopped him in his tracks.

Floyd is not going to do what cotto did which is stand in front of him and attempt to impose his will. If pac wants to have any chance against floyd, they have to prepare him for floyd to be on the move. Frankly this is a very difficult fight for pac. Ive already seen floyd adjust midfight countless times. If you are looking to the judah fight for success, dont, if thats the case, ill look to the morales fight. Both floyd and pac are improved from that time, however its pacs chin and his outstanding power that have carried him this far. also his quickness.

Remember this also, floyd has a tendency to make fighters very wary of his accuracy which completely drops their punch output. Its not going to be a wipeout on either side.

If you think about it, Mayweather and Cotto style is opposite. Mayweather like to wait, look at JMM fight. Pac wont be dumb enough to instigate an exchange, just like MAY. PAC learned to wait and pick his spot. If both of them going to wait for their chance to attach, this is will be a boring fight! Thanks to Mayweather again. I would like to think he's willing to exchange against PAC just like what he did versus Hatton but I doubt it. MAY is really a ***** not taking rish outside and inside the ring.

[inferno]

Cotto showed the blueprint in the first 2.5 rounds, but he didn't have the tools to execute. I like Cotto as a fighter, but the main issue with him is that he doesn't have a right hand. His jab and left hook are his calling cards. He has good movement, but without the right hand, it was going to be a hard fight unless the strength difference was overwhelming. His one hope was to try to overpower Manny and when that didn't happen, he didn't have a plan b. Pacquiao's natural style is tailor made for Mayweather's natural style so Pacquiao is going to have to be the one to come up with a different strategy.

[menoari]

Good thread! I appreciate learning something new.

My two cents worth, I support manny in this fight, to get that point out of the way, but I also think floyd should be favored because he does have the great defense, quick, smart in the ring, and finally trains like an animal.

Manny is coming in quick, unorthodox, similarly trains like an animal, proven to be capable of taking a WW punch but what I seem to notice that people dont mention a whole lot is that Manny seems to have legitimate KO power at WW. Cotto was doing ok til the 2nd knockdown where Cotto was suddenly staring at the floor. Against floyd, there are a lot of punches coming from manny thats for sure, floyd blocks or avoids a lot, I think BUT one clean shot ... (puncher's chance, yes but multiplied by volume of punches).

If floyd can get manny to lower his workrate, then manny may be in for a long night, on the other hand, I dont think manny will be too scared of floyd's KO power so there is no reason for him to lower his workrate.

Im excited and the fight isn't even signed yet, lol.

[tesla_power]

Great post.

This isnt a disrespect to pac, Pacs legacy is currently ahead of floyds. If you know me, im not a hater, i have respected and followed pac longer than alot of you likely reading this thread

-- followed pac even before the Sasakul fight. If you are not pinoy (like me), doubt if you could say that. But you are an unbiased poster and I respect that.

. But when he says one demensional, i know what he means. Pacs diversity and angles are almost entirely offensive, and most of them come from when an opponent is stationary and attempting to trade. Alot of what he does works when an opponent is standing in front of him. For example, cotto was on the move, and jabbing, pac did absolutely nothing. All of the angles, diversity and his fantastic right hand are only effective if you are standing front of him either waiting for it or in the middle of an exchange. You take that away, and you can see floyds point.

-- Not necessarily true. Pac will initiate the exchange if it is lacking on the part of Pbf. Much like in the pbf-jmm, notice that there are 3 to 4 times that Jmm was able to hit Pbf on the tail end of a 3-4punch combo. Jmm was quite slow at that fight, picture pac doing 5-6 combos at a faster rate with off-angles. IMO, pbf will be forced to trade with him. Right now, pac's eyes are open when he does the exchange. I doubt we will Pbf potshotting him to entire fight. Would not agree that when Cotto was in the move, pac did nothing. On the contrary, he went out and tried to catch Cotto. He was still wary in round 9-11 but you see his resolve to finish cotto in round 12, he was catching Cotto with the left straight even when Cotto is backpedalling.

Think about this. A guy like floyd who can take you inside, outside, move and throws every punch in the book, is extremely diverse. People keep talking about the shoulder roll like its his only defense, this guy gives you a different look practically every round. Also, people talk about pacs "improved defense", im not really seeing that. What i see is a grade A chin and a mountain of punch resistence. What i also see is cotto, moved, jabbed, even when he had nothing, still snapped pacs head back, technicians like floyd see that stuff a mile away. Cotto also connected with looping arm punches that had no buisness connecting. Mayweather can also take the fight inside and he needs virtually no room to punch, ive yet to see pac in a phonebooth.

-- Cotto's snap pac's head only on rare instances when Pac tried to finish him off with abandon. Pac's defense is his offense, will agree with you there but still his defense certainly improved. On the first few rounds, Cotto was tagging him with the jab but he adjusted mid way and took away Cotto's most potent weapon. Also, the first few round was pac's ****** rounds due to fact that he is playing mind games and answering critics on the chin question. The phonebooth scenario is very true. IMO, pac needs space to create the power in his shots. If pbf can smother it, then he takes the inside game from pac. I'm hoping Roach would have an adjustment ready for this.

Another thing that has to be noted. When pac moves his head to the right, the left hand over the top comes in every single time, cotto actually took a step back and threw a straight and stopped him in his tracks.

-- true until he adjusted midway. On the next sequences, IMO, he actually used it as bait... move his head ever so slightly then fired off another left.

Floyd is not going to do what cotto did which is stand in front of him and attempt to impose his will. If pac wants to have any chance against floyd, they have to prepare him for floyd to be on the move. Frankly this is a very difficult fight for pac. Ive already seen floyd adjust midfight countless times. If you are looking to the judah fight for success, dont, if thats the case, ill look to the morales fight. Both floyd and pac are improved from that time, however its pacs chin and his outstanding power that have carried him this far. also his quickness.

-- very true indeed. I'm hoping again Roach will pull through. . If this is with any seconds, I doubt pac could make adjustments on his own. But still, he managed a few of his own ideas but not that sure if he can outthink floyd.

Remember this also, floyd has a tendency to make fighters very wary of his accuracy which completely drops their punch output. Its not going to be a wipeout on either side.

-- agreed. But Pac's mental state is very strong. Take a look at Morales I-II and Sasakul fight, he was still trying to win a fight he was losing on the cards.

-- I like his chances against Pbf. Moreso now because he proved that he can take a WW punch. As of now though, still giving Pbf the win(55/45) but as a pinoy, I hope pac will prove me wrong.

[Jiddu Dali]

good post

sidenote: I never understood why someone would post in a thread without reading the first post...

then start the post off with, NOT GONNA READ THAT...lol

dude is in with Manny

[Jiddu Dali]

This isnt a disrespect to pac, Pacs legacy is currently ahead of floyds. If you know me, im not a hater, i have respected and followed pac longer than alot of you likely reading this thread


. But when he says one demensional, i know what he means. Pacs diversity and angles are almost entirely offensive, and most of them come from when an opponent is stationary and attempting to trade. Alot of what he does works when an opponent is standing in front of him. For example, cotto was on the move, and jabbing, pac did absolutely nothing. All of the angles, diversity and his fantastic right hand are only effective if you are standing front of him either waiting for it or in the middle of an exchange. You take that away, and you can see floyds point.

Think about this. A guy like floyd who can take you inside, outside, move and throws every punch in the book, is extremely diverse. People keep talking about the shoulder roll like its his only defense, this guy gives you a different look practically every round. Also, people talk about pacs "improved defense", im not really seeing that. What i see is a grade A chin and a mountain of punch resistence. What i also see is cotto, moved, jabbed, even when he had nothing, still snapped pacs head back, technicians like floyd see that stuff a mile away. Cotto also connected with looping arm punches that had no buisness connecting. Mayweather can also take the fight inside and he needs virtually no room to punch, ive yet to see pac in a phonebooth.

Another thing that has to be noted. When pac moves his head to the right, the left hand over the top comes in every single time, cotto actually took a step back and threw a straight and stopped him in his tracks.

Floyd is not going to do what cotto did which is stand in front of him and attempt to impose his will. If pac wants to have any chance against floyd, they have to prepare him for floyd to be on the move. Frankly this is a very difficult fight for pac. Ive already seen floyd adjust midfight countless times. If you are looking to the judah fight for success, dont, if thats the case, ill look to the morales fight. Both floyd and pac are improved from that time, however its pacs chin and his outstanding power that have carried him this far. also his quickness.

Remember this also, floyd has a tendency to make fighters very wary of his accuracy which completely drops their punch output. Its not going to be a wipeout on either side.

good post....