HOLYFIELD beats Usyk at Cruiser or HW.

[TheProudLunatic]

Usyk loses to Bowe, Lewis. No rematch necessary
Vs Moorer, Ruiz is a toss-up
Ruiz > Dubois, Chisora
Moorer > Dubois, Chisora, AJ, Fury

Love to see how history looks on Usyk's resume.
1, maybe 2 HOFers on it.
That 1 HOFer, Fury, is by default.

[MalevolentBite]

You’ve lost me now. Where was there a Toney-Canelo discussion?

And I’ve already given my opinion on a potential Holyfield-Usyk match in this thread, if you actually read it.

I’m more interested in the fact why you’re overtly flip flopping. Dan_cov made the point that Holyfield lost to southpaws and listed Byrd as an example to which you refuted that claim by saying Holyfield was old when he fought Byrd therefore meaning that dan_cov’s point doesn’t stand due to that. Right?

You’re now here saying seemingly the exact opposite to what you originally refuted in this thread about you have to give Byrd credit for beating Holyfield, likely because it directly contradicts your stance in the other thread where you gave Toney credit for a win over an older version of the same Holyfield.

So which one is it? Does Dan_Cov’s point about Southpaws stand, or not?

Dude you are the one who reference me giving James toney credit for looking good against holyfield. That was based on my on trend were we went back and forth.

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/f...these-fighters

You were the one who brought that up and that was a debate about James toney vs canelo. Now you are trolling or a lair.

Its credit because its an official win on the books. However it has an asterisk because holyfield wasn't in his prime.

Isn't Barry Bonds the home run king ? Yes but since its an asterisk by his record Hank Aaron is the official legit king.

Its the same situation. Byrd gets credit but its not a legit measuring stick of holyfield skill set against southpaws. I Aint not contradicting nothing you just acting slow and its ok cuz I got time lol.

no dan's point doesn't stand because I already stated those loses has an asterisk because holyfield was not in his prime when he lost to Byrd.

Prime holyfield would had beaten Byrd. Just like a prime holyfield would had beaten Usyk. You guys are just prisoners of the moment. There's only one legit champion in Uysk era and its him everyone else ain't an all time great. None. But since boxing puts everyone in the hall of fame Tyson, AJ, Wilder will all go in and it will give uysk more credit in the long run.

[Tatabanya]

As much as I admire Evander, I doubt that Usyk would ever lose to John Ruiz.

[MalevolentBite]

.

Holy is 1-4 in non BS score cards vs Lewis and Bowe and the 1 win came via a narrow margin! The fan man came, forcing a 17 minute break allowing and often gassed Holyfield time to compete to refuel.

He is 1-1 vs Moorer and 1-1-1- vs Ruiz for a combined 2-6-1 vs these guys.

That is who he is. Oh and he used ROIDS and fought dirty sometimes..

FACTS.

Lennox is probably top 4 greatest heavyweight ever. Thats not a dig against holyfield. Bowe ruled the 90s heavyweight era. Tyson didn't want to fight him the only dig you can say is he ducked lennox. Either way bowe is up there for heavyweights better than anything Usyk faced. Holyfield was 38 years old and owed child support when he fought Ruiz and he lost his house he was broke and needed money. Put it in context. That wasn't a prime holyfield.

You really didnt prove any point in this besides using holyfield record post 37 years ago and that is disingenuous honestly.


I agree with him using his head and roids but canelo , roy jones , Shane mosley , James toney all got postive test so this statement has nothing to do with a prime holyfield vs prime usyk

Unless you are saying he was on roids his whole career and he shouldn't get any credit for his career ? Thats wild.

I always gotta be the objective one on this site.

[cace]

Holyfield faced better competition at every level.

i agree

[MalevolentBite]

As much as I admire Evander, I doubt that Usyk would ever lose to John Ruiz.

So a 38 year old holyfield who had wars prior was in his prime when he lost to Ruiz?

Ok. Its officially lets discredit Roy Jones and Mike tyson and the rest of the past greats who faught pass their prime and judge them base on their loses. I am cool with that if that if we are using that same measuring stick for everyone.

I dont think Usyk at any point would lost to Leon Spinks so now we are going to discredit Ali?

[The Big Dunn]

Would be a great fight. IMO definitely going the distance.

I’m leaning toward Usyk by UD if it’s a 12 round fight, Holyfield by UD if it’s 15 rounds.

Usyk imo is slightly higher on the ATG list.

[MalevolentBite]

Usyk loses to Bowe, Lewis. No rematch necessary
Vs Moorer, Ruiz is a toss-up
Ruiz > Dubois, Chisora
Moorer > Dubois, Chisora, AJ, Fury

Love to see how history looks on Usyk's resume.
1, maybe 2 HOFers on it.
That 1 HOFer, Fury, is by default.

These ppl are saying anything. The people are so quick to crown a king and fall in line. Its crazy. Their might be a hidden agenda because usyk was beating up on British fighters and now they want to use him to put down former American heavyweights just because boxing isn't big in America no more. When we ran the table alot of people were quite.

I see what this is.

[PRINCEKOOL]

What is the best version of Oleksandr Uysk? The version that fought Anthony Joshua, Tyson Fury or Daniel Dubois. I personally think it was the version that fought Joshua I & II. During those fights, Usyk's work rate was higher than all of his other heavyweight fights, and skill for skill he was competing against a solid version of Anthony Joshua'.

Now, similarly? What is the best version Evander Holyfield? The versions of Holyfield who fought Rid**** Bowe I & II, Mike Tyson I & II, Buster Douglas, George Foreman, or Lennox Lewis I & II? I would rate the best version of Evander Holyfield to be in his second fight vs Rid**** Bowe II'.

People must now go away and watched Oleksandr Uysk vs Anthony Joshua I & II, and then Evander Holyfield vs Rid**** Bowe I & II 'And be honest, which fighter do you think looks more impressive and was tested more during their battles'.

Note: Oleksandr Uysk has never been involved in a high level fight 'anywhere near the standard of Evander Holyfield vs Rid**** Bowe I, II and even III. Because modern day super heavyweight fighters struggle to fight on the inside, most of them have zero inside game'.

Rid**** Bowe threw over 700 + punches in his first fight vs Evander Holyfield 'With Holyfield throwing 500 + punches. And during the second fight, Rid**** Bowe again threw over 700+ punches, with Evander Holyfield too throwing over 500 + punches'.

A big strength and advantage which Oleksandr Uysk has used vs modern day Super heavyweight fighters is his work rate and endurance 'One of the major reasons why Oleksandr Uysk beat Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua and Daniel Dubois. Was because they could not compete with his endurance levels, especially Daniel Dubois'.

In recent years the highest work rate Oleksandr Uysk has produced during a top level fight 'Was during his rematch vs Anthony Joshua II. Oleksandr Uysk threw over 700 + punches. In all of his other fights vs Tyson Fury I & II? Uysk was producing a similar work rate to Evander Holyfield at his peak'.

Oleksandr Uysk skill for skill was not on another level to ether Tyson Fury or Anthony Joshua 'They could both land punches, and win rounds vs Uysk. But over the entire duration of a distance fights, their ability to maintain that level of performance decreased more compared to Oleksandr Uysk'.

First and foremost 'That situation does not happen vs a peak version of Evander Holyfield. The statistics of his greatest fights show this very clearly? That he has a tremendous level of endurance'.

So if Oleksandr Uysk does not have that attribute over his competitors 'Where is he actually superior to Evander Holyfield? Does Uysk have a better inside game? No. Does hit with more power? No. Does Uysk have more proven and better durability at heavyweight? No. Is Oleksandr Uysk skill for skill a better boxer? It is close, I don't think it is very clear'.

Evander Holyfield at his absolute peak as a Heavyweight fighter 'Beats down Oleksandr Uysk over the distance in my opinion. I don't think Uysk has the single punch power to stop Holyfield in his tracks, and skill for skill? Oleksandr Uysk has never been miles better than his nearest competitors. Every single fighter at top level he has fought, wins rounds against him. Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua, Derek Chisora and even Daniel Dubois were all able to win rounds vs Oleksandr Uysk'.

So whoever people want to match vs Oleksandr Uysk head to head 'Whether that is Muhammad Ali, Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Wladimir Kiltschko or Larry Holmes'.

Those great past fighters are most likely all landing punches against him, and they will all have the ability to win rounds 'So where actually is Oleksandr Uysk going to out compete those fighters? What is the big attribute which enables him to blow those other past great heavyweights out of the water?'.

To conclude: Seriously people need to calm down 'If Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua and Derek Chisora fighters all outside of their peak when they fought Uysk. They were all able to win rounds, and even bust Uysk up real good. Go and look at the pictures of Oleksandr Uysk after he fought both Joshua and Chisora. Oleksandr Uysk was battered and sustained heavy structural damage'.

Derek Chisora was already miles outside of his peak when he fought Oleksandr Uysk 'And he pushed Uysk right to the line in that fight. Again? If people want match Uysk head to head with all of the other past great heavyweight fighters, this is the evidence which people use to compare fighters'.

David Haye who I believe as a Cruiserweight fighter at his peak was a better, more brutal and dangerous fighter than Oleksandr Uysk 'In 2012 David Haye fought Derek Chisora at his absolute peak. David Haye weighing in at 210 pounds vs Derek Chisora 247 pounds. Haye became the first fighter to meet force with force and cancel out Chisora's momentum, being the first fighter to not only deck but knock out Chisora at his near peak as a fighter. Derek Chisora after this fight, would not be decked or knocked out for another 7 years almost. Chisora fought 18 more times, before eventually being legitimately knocked out again by Dillian Whyte in their rematch'.

I get it? Oleksandr Uysk is the man in the moment right now 'He is the most accomplished boxer currently in the entire sport. And I do personally rate him as pound for pound best fighter in the world'.

But head to head, the reality is? Oleksandr Uysk is not a terrifying or a formidable fighter 'He has benefited from the opportune time he entered into the heavyweight Division. But still what he has achieved was monumental'.

I honestly believe that at their peak both David Haye and Evander Holyfield would beat Oleksandr Uysk 'Haye would beat Uysk both at Cruiserweight and Heavyweight. The weight limit for the Cruiserweight Division during Evander Holyfield's era was 190 pounds so? Really making that comparison is not that relevant. But for sure as Heavyweight fighter Evander Holyfield skill for skill competed during a more brutal and superior boxing era' etc.

[Tatabanya]

So a 38 year old holyfield who had wars prior was in his prime when he lost to Ruiz?

Ok. Its officially lets discredit Roy Jones and Mike tyson and the rest of the past greats who faught pass their prime and judge them base on their loses. I am cool with that if that if we are using that same measuring stick for everyone.

I dont think Usyk at any point would lost to Leon Spinks so now we are going to discredit Ali?

It was just irony.

My picking of Usyk (after long and hard thinking) in their respective primes is based on Usyk's superior ring intelligence. He would never be dragged into a war by Evander. I believe he would outbox him, but it would not be an easy night for him. Not at all.