The lineal HW title. A fart in the wind.

[kafkod]

The Transnational Boxing Rankings Board, the most credible source for rankings on the planet, considered it the championship fight.

Nobody, anywhere, took issue with the idea that Usyk and Joshua were the top two guys absent Fury. So everyone who took Fury's retirement at face value considered it the lineal fight, and everyone who decided to ignore Fury's retirement considered him to still be the champion.

Looking at this conversation, I see I need to concede that i was wrong to say that nobody but you considered Usyk vs AJ 2 to be a lineal title fight.

We know that Usyk, out of his own mouth, has said that the lineal title means nothing to him.

But if TBRB are the most credible source on the planet, and they accepted Usyk vs AJ 2 as a lineal title fight, then how do you explain the fact that neither AJ, nor any of his millions of fans, nor his motor mouth promoter Fast Eddie, said a single word about AJ fightiing for the lineal title against Usyk?

[kafkod]

This isn't the first time a lineage has been disputed. It happens a lot when a long lineage ends with a retirement or a guy leaving the weight class. But ultimately the debate was settled in the ring and now it's just a trivia question.

One such big debate was Joe Louis. He retired in 1949, and then unretired. He was retired for less time than Fury. So there was a debate going into the Joe Louis vs Ezzard Charles fight as to whether Louis was defending his lineal crown or whether he and Charles were contesting the vacant lineage.

Ultimately, most people settled on Charles beginning a new lineage..

This speaks to the reason why I started this thread, which was to push back against a vociferous clique of boxing history "experts" who were insisting that "the lineal" was the only title in boxing that actually mattered, and that it was the antidote to all the controversy and confusion caused by multiple sanctioning bodies.

According to that view, we, as fans, should stop recognising alphabet belts and recognise only the lineal title, because man-who-beat-the-man lineage s the only objective way to decide who the real HW champion is.

Great idea, but in the real world, multiple sanctioning bodies made it impossible to use man-who-beat-the-man lineage objectively, which is why Ring Magazine gave up trying and retired their lineal title belt back in the 1990s.

[Willow The Wisp]

According to that view, we, as fans, should stop recognising alphabet belts and recognise only the lineal title, because man-who-beat-the-man lineage s the only objective way to decide who the real HW champion is.

You catch on quick.

[Willow The Wisp]

Why does this thread even exist?

[famicommander]

Why does this thread even exist?

Because kafkod can't understand the concept.

Me saying the true lineage goes
Klitschko --> Fury --> vacant (retirement) --> Fury (from the Wilder II win) --> vacant (retirement) --> Usyk (from the Joshua II win)

Has broken his brain entirely.

[kafkod]

You catch on quick.

Can't say the same about you.

[kafkod]

Why does this thread even exist?

I explained why I started this thread in my previous comment.. My explanation obviously went right over your head. Unlike me, you don't catch on quick. In fact, you don't catch on at all.

[kafkod]

You're missing a piece. Check the precedent set by the retirements of Jeffries, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Ali x 2, Lewis and Klitschko. It's Boxing History 101 class.

I'm pretty sure their lineal title reigns all ended when they retired. Are you saying something different?

[kafkod]

Because kafkod can't understand the concept.

Me saying the true lineage goes
Klitschko --> Fury --> vacant (retirement) --> Fury (from the Wilder II win) --> vacant (retirement) --> Usyk (from the Joshua II win)

Has broken his brain entirely.

I fully understand the concept and nothing I read at this place is going to break my brain.

But my mind was blown to discover that BoxRec can't even agree with itself about when Usyk's lineal championship reign began. They have Usyk vs AJ 2 as a vacant lineal title fight, but their version of the lineage has Usyk becoming lineal champ by beating Fury in 2024: https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Li...eight_Champion

It's also mind blowing to discover that TBRB - allegedly the most prestigious ratings panel on the planet - are peddling a version of the HW lineage which is different than the one accepted by BoxRec, linealboxingchampion.com, ESPN, Cyber Boxing Zone, BoxingScene, and the boxing industry as a whole, who all recognised Fury as lineal champ until he lost to Usyk::

https://www.linealboxingchampion.com/the-history-of-the-lineal-heavyweight-championship-boxing-heavyweight-champions

https://boxing.fandom.com/wiki/List_...ns#Heavyweight

https://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/...boxing-history

https://www.boxingscene.com/articles...hampion-part-i

[SouthpawRight]

Tyson Fury might be a great heavyweight but he isn’t all time great is what

and he dropped the ball against a mma