Usyk may actually be the Heavyweight Goat

[M312]

See I do have doubt.

Do you really think Ali, Foreman, Lewis, Evander and co would have ANY problems with those versions of AJ and Fury?

AJ been ****ting himself every time he gets in the ring since Ruiz and Fury physically shot to bits and lost to novice Ngannou.

I get that you can only fight who's around at the time but Usyks peers are terrible and he's not blowing them out of the water, he wins 8-4 or 7-5 every time and the fights are competitive.

Lewis would do AJ like Michael Grant, and Fury wouldn't do a lot better.

I think people underestimate how bad this era is.

Who do they spar against to even prep for Usyk? They literally have never seen anything like him and have never prepared for anyone like him.

Obviously mythical, so you could argue that that could get southpaw Heavies/Cruisers from any era to spar with, but if you plucked them straight out of their prime, they wouldn't land a shot. They would simply be bamboozled by the fact he's southpaw, never mind the greatest southpaw ever (at the heavier weights)

[DeeMoney]

Great point. Marciano and Louis were cruiserweights. Frazier maybe too. Usyk's flaw is he beat a lot of great fighters that didn't have the hype that Frazier, Foreman, Norton, etc have. It's very possible Chisora could beat Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Liston, Lyle, etc.

Bottom line is Usyk has a perfect career, perfect record and is the closest thing to Heavyweight perfection we ever saw. These so called armchair champions here talk about Usyk's alleged flaws but not one fighter, NOT ONE, has been able to exploit them.

Thats a fair argument to make, but I just have a hard time accepting fighters in an uncapped division (heavyweight) as being the same as fighters in a capped weight division (cruiser) even if they were fighting within the parameters. Especially, when you proclaim that Usyk is the GOAT at the uncapped weight. Yes, many fighters in earlier generations fell within that weight range, but not really for the past 60 years. Maybe the argument could be he is the best fighter at the 190-200lb mark.

[ELPacman]

I like Usyk, but unfortunately, we'll probably never see what kind of "dog" he has in him without a heavyweight willing to throw caution to the wind and let it all hang out just to land. Though I feel Dubois is going to bring that on Saturday this time around.

As long as fighters try to "box" Usyk, they won't win that matchup typically. He's too technically sound because he had to be at cruiserweight and brought them skills up with him. Since he didn't quite bring up a heavyweight lights out punch, it also forced him to rely on movements and be tactical to out maneuver the big guys.

[Willow The Wisp]

I think that Oleksandr Usyk is a generationally superb fighter who enters the IBHOF the moment he becomes eligible. Rating as the GOAT however, extends beyond avoiding a loss, and our best guess about head to head match-ups with champions past.
If the latter is something people are so secure in their ability; just pick the Usyk-Dubois II winner up front and bet your house, make a fortune.

Although he's in his late 30's now (38 1/2), he has very low mileage as a pro. 23 fights is traditionally just a great start.
His extensive amateur record notwithstanding.

Wrap it up like this and we can talk about keeping company with Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis and Klitschko:

Daniel Dubois.........................TKO. 11
Joseph Parker........................W. 12
Agit Kabayel...........................W. 12
Moses Itauma........................TKO. 10

[JuniorTorres720]

Usyk is an all time great. He's not a massive heavyweight. He's quite small compared to the heavyweights he's fought. But man, he's dominated. Bursting the egos of both Fury and Joshua.

[BirdSong]

usyk v lennox would sort out the natter as lennox is seen rightly or wrongly as some measuring stick for head to heads and inter gen fantasy matchups and yeah lennox is a lot better than mental case joshua regardless of anything else for starters

[Bennyleonard99]

I like Usyk, but unfortunately, we'll probably never see what kind of "dog" he has in him without a heavyweight willing to throw caution to the wind and let it all hang out just to land. Though I feel Dubois is going to bring that on Saturday this time around.

As long as fighters try to "box" Usyk, they won't win that matchup typically. He's too technically sound because he had to be at cruiserweight and brought them skills up with him. Since he didn't quite bring up a heavyweight lights out punch, it also forced him to rely on movements and be tactical to out maneuver the big guys.

Perhaps nobody has thrown caution to the wind and tried to give Usyk "chaos" because deep down they know it would be suicidal given Usyk's reflexes and counterpunching brilliance. It's been proven so far that there is no way to beat Usyk. It's going to take an original fighter with multi dimensions beyond what Usyk has. Fury had the huge height and reach advantages but totally failed twice to best Usyk. I heard Usyk beat Wladimir in sparring pretty handily. He has no problems with bigger taller rangier safety first boxers. He may truly be unbeatable.

[Bennyleonard99]

usyk v lennox would sort out the natter as lennox is seen rightly or wrongly as some measuring stick for head to heads and inter gen fantasy matchups and yeah lennox is a lot better than mental case joshua regardless of anything else for starters

Lennox is a top 3 ATG but the fact remains he twice made colossal mistakes in the ring. Though he avenged those failures and won the rematches handily, something about McCall and Rahman spooked Lennox into making terrible judgments in the ring. Usyk is better than Rahman and McCall and if they could confuse the brain of Lennox, well it's most likely Usyk would disorient Lennox into making a massive blunder... and of course exploiting that mistake and turning it into victory. .

[Bennyleonard99]

Usyk is an all time great. He's not a massive heavyweight. He's quite small compared to the heavyweights he's fought. But man, he's dominated. Bursting the egos of both Fury and Joshua.

No doubt Usyk is all time great, but he may actually be THE Greatest of all. He proved his supremacy beyond any shadow of doubt.

[Bennyleonard99]

Thats a fair argument to make, but I just have a hard time accepting fighters in an uncapped division (heavyweight) as being the same as fighters in a capped weight division (cruiser) even if they were fighting within the parameters. Especially, when you proclaim that Usyk is the GOAT at the uncapped weight. Yes, many fighters in earlier generations fell within that weight range, but not really for the past 60 years. Maybe the argument could be he is the best fighter at the 190-200lb mark.

No, Usyk is the best fighter at any weight, he slayed the super heavyweights twice each AJ and Fury. He reduced AJ and Fury to irrelevance. I like Usyk's chances vs any Heavyweight champion in history - Holmes, Klitschkos, Lennox, Holyfield, Tyson, Primo Carnera, Jess Willard, Charlie Liston, anybody.