Would you rather see Usyk-Parker or Usyk-Dubois II?

[Smash]

Perhaps, the rules have been amended but historically belt line punches were considered legal..

all depends on how the ref instructs the fighters, he will point to a spot and say thats ok, sometimes its the belt and sometimes above the belt depending on what he sees with the trunks etc

[RingoKid]

If Sniffles had bothered to turn up and take his beating - by The Mighty Oilskin - like a man, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

It'd be Usyk vs Parker for Undisputed as it should be. Anything less is British Bullshït !

[champion4ever]

Maybe because he was hit full force in the lower belly by a 240lb power puncher? Just a thought.

If what you are stating is true then that was a legitimate punch. You said the lower belly.

Which may include parts of the lower belly button. So according to the new rules that was a legal punch.

Therefore, Triple D should have won by way of KO.
Like I said it’s all water under the bridge now.

The ref made a judgement call and in his opinion. The punch was low.

So boxing fans are just going to have to learn to accept and deal with it. I know you have.

[RingoKid]

Therefore, Triple D should have won by way of KO.

You assume too much by thinking Usyk wouldnt have beat the count.

[champion4ever]

I answered this and linked it already. They did file a protest for the fouls in the Ward fight.

The disconnect here is possibly that you think the belt line refers to the top of the shorts, and it doesn't. Because fighters wear their shorts in different spots, the beltline has always been defined by the line passing from the top of the hips through the navel. That's been the case since boxing rules were formalized, and is true of all modern boxing matches, as well as historically understood as well. You can see the belt line diagrammed as such in old boxing texts dating back before 1850. The beltline meant the imaginary line where you'd wear your belt to hold up your pants, not the top of wherever you wore your shorts, because boxers would usually wear shorts that were larger, especially after groin protection was mandated. But ignorant fans conflated the two, and that's led to much confusion over the years.

Another example of fans screwing up the terminology is from the old saw "to be the champ, you have to beat the champ". That actually means that the champ retains his belt in the event of a tie, so you have to actually win in order to become the new champ. You can win by a controversial split decision, you just have to win. But fans at some point started thinking that meant you had to win the fight clearly or you didn't deserve to win, which is, of course, hogwash. Many of the ATGs won belts as challengers on narrow split decisions. But that false narrative persists to this day, even espoused by the likes of the great Roy Jones Jr, and may have contributed some to judge favoritism of the A-side, although I think corruption and financial incentives had more to do with it.

Well we will just have to agree to disagree. It seems to me that they want to take body punching out of boxing altogether.

Generally, speaking, a legal punch was any punch that landed above an opponent’s hips. Now they have changed the rules.

By stating that any punch that lands below the navel is illegal. When it used to be that any punch that lands below the hips were illegal.

[Light_Speed]

Parker. The low blow/bodyshot controversy is not enough to justify a rematch IMO, Usyk was winning before and after that shot. He knows how to beat Dubois, I'm more interested in him vs Parker because he would have to think more, it would be a good chess match.

[gauze]

parker, i'm sick of every fight being a rematch or trilogy

[kafkod]

If what you are stating is true then that was a legitimate punch. You said the lower belly.

Which may include parts of the lower belly button. So according to the new rules that was a legal punch.

Therefore, Triple D should have won by way of KO.
Like I said it’s all water under the bridge now.

The ref made a judgement call and in his opinion. The punch was low.

So boxing fans are just going to have to learn to accept and deal with it. I know you have.

Lower belly is the abdomen below the belly button. It is illegal to land punches below the navel in a boxing match and always has been. If that punch had been legal it probably wouldn't even have landed. Usyk saw it coming and put his arm down to deflect it. But he was expecting a legal punch, not a low blow.

Usyk goes to the body a lot. Have you ever seen him hit anybody as low as that? I haven't. He is a clean fighter who respects the rules and expects his opponents to do the same.

[kafkod]

Well we will just have to agree to disagree. It seems to me that they want to take body punching out of boxing altogether.

Generally, speaking, a legal punch was any punch that landed above an opponent’s hips. Now they have changed the rules.

By stating that any punch that lands below the navel is illegal. When it used to be that any punch that lands below the hips were illegal.

The rules have always been the same. And, as the images I posted prove, DD's punch landed well below Usyk's hips. It wasn't even borderline, it was a clear low blow.

[PRINCEKOOL]

There is more than just one person, with the distorted perception that Daniel Dubois 'Genuinely knocked out Oleksandr Uysk I, in their first fight. In reality? Uysk was pushing the rules of the sport, and applying some gamesmanship. Oleksandr Uysk was doing exactly what Mike Tyson did, when he would turn a hook into an elbow or? How he would sometimes purposely jab a fighter to the throat'.

Oleksandr Uysk's style of gamesmanship seems more discrete, and under the radar 'But he has used those antics vs both Daniel Dubois and Anthony Joshua I & II'. It was a bit unnecessary from Uysk, but he obviously wanted to conduct himself in that manner'.

Apart form that Daniel Dubois vs Oleksandr Usyk I 'Really was not a competitive fight. Both Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua in their four fights vs Oleksandr Uysk I & II produced overall better efforts than Daniel Dubois'.

People who don't really understand the action of fights 'May think that when a fighter, is crudely being all aggressive and done by the middle rounds. That is a better effort than what Fury and Joshua produced. But it is not, at elite level boxing'.

So? I would have to admit, that I am interested in Daniel Dubois vs Oleksandr Uysk II 'But not because it was a controversial fight. Dubios was done by the middle rounds, and knocked out by a jab. From a fighter in Oleksandr Uysk who has never been renowned for his brute strength or punching power'.

Note: What interests me is 'Can Daniel Dubois proves that he is not a front runner at top level? Don Charles knows Dubois is a front runner, which is why in my opinion. He is still weary of Dubois fighting Chisora miles out of his peak. Chisora's entire game is one of attrition, even still now at this stage of his career. And you never know? If Chisora is able to withstand the power of Dubois, that type of fight as the action progresses could be a very dangerous and difficult for Daniel Dubois'.

I honestly believe if Dubois does not have the ability to hurt his opponents or stop them in their tracks 'I don't think his game is sophisticated enough to win on points vs many top level Heavyweights including Anthony Joshua in a potential rematch'. Daniel Dubois being a front runner, has nothing to do with him lacking courage. As Dubois has shown courage in all of his loses, such a battling on for so long against Joe Joyce while injured. Daniel Dubois being a front runner as a fighter, seems to be a bi-product of his style and fundamental make up'. He seems to be a like a computer game character, with a limited amount of moves at this stage of his career. Don Charles I am sure, is aware that he needs to train Dubois more into a complete fighter if he is to reign as a World Heavyweight Champion'.

To conclude: Joshua on his worst night ever vs Dubois, was in my opinion? On his way to turning the fight around, and systematically beating down Dubois over the distance. The statistics of the fight, show this trajectory appearing in the action. The 5th round knockout, which was greatly assisted by the unforced errors of Anthony Joshua got Daniel Dubois out of that fight. There are details in the action of fights, Daniel Dubois to is credit executed his best fight. But even still skill for skill I don't rate Dubois as an Elite level fighter'.

Both Oleksandr Uysk II and Joseph Parker can beat Daniel Dubois 'The Undisputed Heavyweight Championship is obviously very interesting, so I would admit that it is a great fight to make. But Joseph Parker is deserving of a title fight, or at the very least another big fight opportunity vs a top level Heavyweight fighter'.

Note: I did not vote on the poll etc.