Casual Fans overlooking Fury's mastery of his Era?

[dan-b]

Okay. I am searching for an article that mentions the cap but I am not finding one.

Okay, I went on all their websites and you may in fact have been right about the IBF. The cap applies to all divisions except heavyweight, or at least that's how I'm reading it. I should imagine the fee is negotiated, so if the Saudis are willing to pay them a huge fee to hold back calling the Hrgovic mandatory it backs up what you say.

The WBC's fee is 3% with no cap mentioned, but they insert this sentence: "The WBC Technical Committee reserves the right to calculate the sanction fees for any specific bout when at its discretion the information provided does not correspond to the magnitude and characteristics of such event." Which suggests perhaps it gets negotiated.

The WBA and WBO each have a cap of $250,000.

[siablo14]

Okay, I went on all their websites and you may in fact have been right about the IBF. The cap applies to all divisions except heavyweight, or at least that's how I'm reading it. I should imagine the fee is negotiated, so if the Saudis are willing to pay them a huge fee to hold back calling the Hrgovic mandatory it backs up what you say.

The WBC's fee is 3% with no cap mentioned, but they insert this sentence: "The WBC Technical Committee reserves the right to calculate the sanction fees for any specific bout when at its discretion the information provided does not correspond to the magnitude and characteristics of such event." Which suggests perhaps it gets negotiated.

The WBA and WBO each have a cap of $250,000.

Thanks.............

[QueensburyRules]

Fury could've done a lot better, tending the flock and collecting hardware. That long medical sabbatical didn't help in the early phase of his reign, but it certainly may have saved his life, so the good folks will cut him slack there. Even now, however, he's big on issuing challenges and making other provocative statements designed to rile people up, and the fans have grown pretty tired of the show, and just want him to fight, and preferably, fight the best!

But looking back carefully at the Tyson Fury era of Heavyweight history, we can see that he hasn't done as badly as all that, with 10 fights against the 50 best of the era (based on a pretty good list of the 50 best).

What are your thoughts about how he's been doing?


This Generation 2015-2025 - Heavyweights

2013 - 2023

1. Tyson Fury
2. Deontay Wilder
2. Deontay Wilder
2. Deontay Wilder
3. Oleksandr Usyk
4. Anthony Joshua
5. Wladimir Klitschko
6. Zhilei Zhang
7. Andy Ruiz Jr
8. Luis Ortiz
9. Alexander Povetkin
10.Dillian Whyte
11.Joe Joyce
12.Daniel Dubois
13.Filip Hrgovic
14.Jarrell Miller
15.Joseph Parker
16.Kubrat Pulev
17.Otto Wallin
18.Frank Sanchez
19.Robert Helenius
20.Derek Chisora
20.Derek Chisora
20.Derek Chisora
21. Arslanbek Makhmudov
22.Charles Martin
23.Carlos Takam
24.Martin Bakole
25.Jared Anderson
26.Tomasz Adamek
27.Chris Arreola
28.Tony Thompson
29.Bermane Stiverne
30.Michael Hunter
31.Tony Yoka
32.Johann Duhaupas
33.Bakhodir Jalolov
34.Efe Ajagba
35.Daniel Dubois
36.David Haye
37.Bryant Jennings
38.Agit Kabayel
39.Gerald Washington
40.Murat Gassiev
41.Jermaine Franklin
42.Shannon Briggs
43.Dominic Breazeale
44.Adam Kownacki
45.Ruslan Chagaev
46.Fabio Wardley
47.Christian Hammer
48.Alexander Dimetrienko
49.Aleksandr Ustinov
50.Hugie Fury


The bullpen:

Simon Kean , Zhan Kossobutskiy, Ivan Dychko, Mariuz Wach, Richard Torrez Jr., Stephen Shaw, Mairis Briedis, Ali Erin Demirezen, Oscar Rivas, Vladyslav Sirenko, David Price, Artur Szpilka, Eric Molina, Lucas Browne, Jerry Forrest, Francisco Pianeta, Lenier Pero, Jonathan Rice, Tom Schwarz, Travis Kaufman, Alex Leapai, Vyacheslav Glazkov, Demsey McKean, Kevin Lerena, Jerry Forrest, Rostislav Plechko, Izuagbe Ugonoh, Amir Mansour, Justice Huni, David Allen, Erkan Teper, Eddie Chambers, Sergey Kuzmin, Malik Scott, Edmund Gerber, Trevor Bryan, Nathan Gorman, Evgeny Romanov, Johnathan Guidry, Razvan Cojanu, Agron Smakici, Viktor Vykhryst, Jose Larduet, Bogdan Dinu, Andrey Fedosov, Attila Levin, David Adeleye, Michael Wallisch, Oleksandr Zakhozhyi, Frazier Clarke, Kingpin Johnson, Joe Cusumano, Mahoud "Manuel" Charr, Michael Polite Coffie, Audley Harrison, Kem Ljungquist, Dillon Carman, Junior Fa, Albert Sosnowski, Fres Oquendo, Mike Balogun, Andrii Rudenko, Marcin Siwy, Deontae Pettigrew, Derric Rossy, Mike Perez, Tre Lippe, Sam ***ton, Odlanier Solis, Joey Dawejko, Solomon Haumono, Przemyslaw Saleta, Kertson Manswell, Joe Hanks, Gurgen Hovhannisyan, Joey Abell, Hemi Ahio, Alexis Santos, Ebenezer Tetteh, Tor Hamer, Agron Smakici, Raphael Akpejiori, Joseph Goodall, Chazz Witherspoon, Darmani Rock, Joshua Tufte, Kelvin Price, Apti Davtaev, Miljan Rovcanin, George Arias, Seth Mitchell, Gary Cornish, Lenroy Thomas, Cassius Chaney, Bronco Billy Wright, James McKenzie Morrison, Kash Ali, Fred Kassi, Peter Kadiru, Adrian Granat, Sonny Conto, Franz Rill, Daniel Martz, Leif Larsen

- - Got a pic of the dartboard U used for them picks?

[dan-b]

Thanks.............

No problem. As a footnote, all their websites are stuck in the 90s with broken links and corrupted HTML code. With all those fees you'd think they'd hire a tech graduate to fix and freshen up their websites.

[_Rexy_]

Calling out "Casuals" and then posting that list in the same post


Those 3 Del Boy fights really turned the whole sport upside down.

[dan-b]

I still find it interesting that OP can write a post like this. I don't think he's a Fury fanboy per se, but he places a heavy emphasis on the so-called "lineal" championship.

The current lineage allegedly began when Wladimir Klitschko beat Ruslan Chagaev. What does this even mean for Fury at this point?

Putting in a body of work where you can be objectively measured as the number one in a division seems to be far more important. Which is why it's crucial to see #1 vs #2 frequently.

[Willow The Wisp]

I still find it interesting that OP can write a post like this. I don't think he's a Fury fanboy per se, but he places a heavy emphasis on the so-called "lineal" championship.

The current lineage allegedly began when Wladimir Klitschko beat Ruslan Chagaev. What does this even mean for Fury at this point?

Putting in a body of work where you can be objectively measured as the number one in a division seems to be far more important. Which is why it's crucial to see #1 vs #2 frequently.

My level of expertise notwithstanding, the title lineage is empirical and longstanding. The principles upon which the title was built and maintained have never been in dispute.
It's a title that is won and lost in the ring.
Period.
No annual tournament, no playoffs that ignore the regular season, no league or club to join, no politics or backroom deals.

The Heavyweight (open) division has been VERY fortunate to have escaped the corruption of the self-appointed, for-profit "Banditos", who casually strip and bestow their false titles by selling their sanction to promotors.
In the context of sporting history, this is solid gold - The "Oldest, richest, most internationally acknowledged title in all of sports", as they say.

When there were breaks in the chain (Following Jeffries, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Ali III, and Lewis), but the retired champion made a comeback and repaired the chain.
When this failed to occur (Tunney, Marciano and Lewis), arrangements were made to match the best active contenders in order to mend the chain, without controversy or dispute. In the most recent episode, Wladimir Klitschko, through attrition, collected belts and turned back challenges until anyone with a ghost of a chance against him had been dealt with; except for his own brother, who's own list of scalps decidedly rated second best. Following Wladimir's one sided beating of WBA champion Ruslan Chagaev for the IBF, WBO, IBO titles then held by Klitschko in June 2009; Wladimir had secured wins over Rahman, Thompson, Ibragimov, Austin, Brock, Peter, Byrd, Castillo, Williamson and a host of others, and would further his claim going forward with frequent defenses for the next six years against the division's best, extending long after Vitali had dropped off the radar.
His mop up job was the best establishment of title lineage that anyone could do without a comeback by Lennox Lewis.

What this has to do with Tyson Fury at this point, is that in decisively beating Klitschko, he TOOK that Liniage, and all those shiny belts away from Klitschko, to keep for himself; to have until he gets beaten in the ring himself, permanently retires or dies; as title history states.

The sanctioning bodies are free to sell and strip their belts of course; but for the history books and serious followers of the sport; all titles given out are preliminary steps to fight for the one Lineal Championship of the world.
A fact no more open to opinion than the Papacy.
Just ask Usyk, now festooned with only the belts lifted feloniously from Fury while he was on sabbatical and "given back" to the defrocked Klitschko AFTER he had long since lost them, and the belt bestowed on unranked Charles Martin, passed around to interlopers Joshua, Ruiz, Joshua and Usyk.

These things shouldn't have to be explained to a bright and knowledgeable poster like you, Dan.
And for the sake of curbing revisionist history and other pure BS, I hope you'll consider your response, and its contributions to the only integrity, beyond the real blood, that boxing has.

So now, hopefully in May; we get to see number 1 & 2 go at it, either to defend the title, or pass it on.

[QueensburyRules]

My level of expertise notwithstanding, the title lineage is empirical and longstanding. The principles upon which the title was built and maintained have never been in dispute.
It's a title that is won and lost in the ring.
Period.
No annual tournament, no playoffs that ignore the regular season, no league or club to join, no politics or backroom deals.

The Heavyweight (open) division has been VERY fortunate to have escaped the corruption of the self-appointed, for-profit "Banditos", who casually strip and bestow their false titles by selling their sanction to promotors.
In the context of sporting history, this is solid gold - The "Oldest, richest, most internationally acknowledged title in all of sports", as they say.

When there were breaks in the chain (Following Jeffries, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Ali III, and Lewis), but the retired champion made a comeback and repaired the chain.
When this failed to occur (Tunney, Marciano and Lewis), arrangements were made to match the best active contenders in order to mend the chain, without controversy or dispute. In the most recent episode, Wladimir Klitschko, through attrition, collected belts and turned back challenges until anyone with a ghost of a chance against him had been dealt with; except for his own brother, who's own list of scalps decidedly rated second best. Following Wladimir's one sided beating of WBA champion Ruslan Chagaev for the IBF, WBO, IBO titles then held by Klitschko in June 2009; Wladimir had secured wins over Rahman, Thompson, Ibragimov, Austin, Brock, Peter, Byrd, Castillo, Williamson and a host of others, and would further his claim going forward with frequent defenses for the next six years against the division's best, extending long after Vitali had dropped off the radar.
His mop up job was the best establishment of title lineage that anyone could do without a comeback by Lennox Lewis.

What this has to do with Tyson Fury at this point, is that in decisively beating Klitschko, he TOOK that Liniage, and all those shiny belts away from Klitschko, to keep for himself; to have until he gets beaten in the ring himself, permanently retires or dies; as title history states.

The sanctioning bodies are free to sell and strip their belts of course; but for the history books and serious followers of the sport; all titles given out are preliminary steps to fight for the one Lineal Championship of the world.
A fact no more open to opinion than the Papacy.
Just ask Usyk, now festooned with only the belts lifted feloniously from Fury while he was on sabbatical and "given back" to the defrocked Klitschko AFTER he had long since lost them, and the belt bestowed on unranked Charles Martin, passed around to interlopers Joshua, Ruiz, Joshua and Usyk.

These things shouldn't have to be explained to a bright and knowledgeable poster like you, Dan.
And for the sake of curbing revisionist history and other pure BS, I hope you'll consider your response, and its contributions to the only integrity, beyond the real blood, that boxing has.

So now, hopefully in May; we get to see number 1 & 2 go at it, either to defend the title, or pass it on.

- - So Lewie makes a tubby comeback with a dozen soft defenses, and that's lineal for you?

[The plunger man]

6 of those fights are against the same 2 fighters…..wtf are you on about

[dan-b]

My level of expertise notwithstanding, the title lineage is empirical and longstanding. The principles upon which the title was built and maintained have never been in dispute.
It's a title that is won and lost in the ring.
Period.
No annual tournament, no playoffs that ignore the regular season, no league or club to join, no politics or backroom deals.

The Heavyweight (open) division has been VERY fortunate to have escaped the corruption of the self-appointed, for-profit "Banditos", who casually strip and bestow their false titles by selling their sanction to promotors.
In the context of sporting history, this is solid gold - The "Oldest, richest, most internationally acknowledged title in all of sports", as they say.

When there were breaks in the chain (Following Jeffries, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Ali III, and Lewis), but the retired champion made a comeback and repaired the chain.
When this failed to occur (Tunney, Marciano and Lewis), arrangements were made to match the best active contenders in order to mend the chain, without controversy or dispute. In the most recent episode, Wladimir Klitschko, through attrition, collected belts and turned back challenges until anyone with a ghost of a chance against him had been dealt with; except for his own brother, who's own list of scalps decidedly rated second best. Following Wladimir's one sided beating of WBA champion Ruslan Chagaev for the IBF, WBO, IBO titles then held by Klitschko in June 2009; Wladimir had secured wins over Rahman, Thompson, Ibragimov, Austin, Brock, Peter, Byrd, Castillo, Williamson and a host of others, and would further his claim going forward with frequent defenses for the next six years against the division's best, extending long after Vitali had dropped off the radar.
His mop up job was the best establishment of title lineage that anyone could do without a comeback by Lennox Lewis.

What this has to do with Tyson Fury at this point, is that in decisively beating Klitschko, he TOOK that Liniage, and all those shiny belts away from Klitschko, to keep for himself; to have until he gets beaten in the ring himself, permanently retires or dies; as title history states.

The sanctioning bodies are free to sell and strip their belts of course; but for the history books and serious followers of the sport; all titles given out are preliminary steps to fight for the one Lineal Championship of the world.
A fact no more open to opinion than the Papacy.
Just ask Usyk, now festooned with only the belts lifted feloniously from Fury while he was on sabbatical and "given back" to the defrocked Klitschko AFTER he had long since lost them, and the belt bestowed on unranked Charles Martin, passed around to interlopers Joshua, Ruiz, Joshua and Usyk.

These things shouldn't have to be explained to a bright and knowledgeable poster like you, Dan.
And for the sake of curbing revisionist history and other pure BS, I hope you'll consider your response, and its contributions to the only integrity, beyond the real blood, that boxing has.

So now, hopefully in May; we get to see number 1 & 2 go at it, either to defend the title, or pass it on.

Is being lineal champ necessarily synonymous with being #1?

When Ali fought Holmes, surely Holmes was #1 even if Ali was champ by your definition?