Comments Thread For: Tyson Fury Views Joe Joyce as Tougher Opponent Than Oleksandr Usyk

[fistic flow]

Anthony Joshua beats Dillian Whyte more impressively than Tyson Fury. Usyk's last two fights have not been at the same level as Tyson Fury's.

Usyk has back to back fought in two super elite fights.

Tyson Fury has not fought at genuine world level since Deontay Wilder. Whyte & Chisora are domestic to high end European level fighters at the time Fury got to them.

Good wins, but? There are many other heavyweights out there that would push and probably beat those fighters more impressively.

Fury is still fighting well, but against competition that are stylistically not really asking him any questions. Fighters who are miles outside their peak.

These stay busy fights he has been having, I don't think there is much carry over to elite level 'Fury is learning nothing new from beating Whyte & Chisora'.

Maybe this sort of preparation shows up when he returns to World & Elite level? This is something to consider.

I still make Tyson Fury the favorite to beat these fighters. But as you can see it is not as certain as people make out.

Except Joshua didn't, he got wobbled in the second round.

Again you mention super elite fights which basically means Joshua, but does Joshua present anything dramatically different to what Fury has seen before? More likely it's Fury that does specifically that for Usyk

There are many heavyweights .... - yeah, okay, anyone can play that game. The reality is no one did, and no one has.

Fury will plan accordingly with Steward regardless of 'learning nothing new in his last two fights, as if that even matters. And the fact that a 6 foot 9 inch man is even considered a great inside fighter says everything about Fury's talent and fighting instinct.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Except Joshua didn't, he got wobbled in the second round.

Again you mention super elite fights which basically means Joshua, but does Joshua present anything dramatically different to what Fury has seen before? More likely it's Fury that does specifically that for Usyk

There are many heavyweights .... - yeah, okay, anyone can play that game. The reality is no one did, and no one has.

Fury will plan accordingly with Steward regardless of 'learning nothing new in his last two fights, as if that even matters. And the fact that a 6 foot 9 inch man is even considered a great inside fighter says everything about Fury's talent and fighting instinct.

Whyte has been ****** out many times before. Chisora has been beaten many times before. You watch boxing right? You know their records.

So you keep watching, Anthony Joshua beats Dillian Whyte more impressively than Fury.

Fury was doing nothing, up until the knock out. Whyte could hardly move, and he was still getting close to Fury.

Tyson Fury last two fights, no matter how you try and dress it up 'They have not been at World or Elite level'. These are facts.

Usyk's last two fights where at elite level. That is a fact.

Fury skill for skill has not fought at elite level technically since Kiltschko 'That was the last time he fought a fighter, who boxing purist wold agree was a skill for skill a elite level fighter'. And he is still being decked and battered 'These are the colds facts people need to understand' Fury is not miles better than the competition.

Usain Bolt put serious distance between himself, and other elite level sprinters. Sport analyst could see the statistics, that proved this to be correct.

There is no evidence, no statistics that show with certainty that Fury is miles better than his closest competition 'Right now'. Just a bunch of narratives and stories his hardcore fans keep promoting.

Preparation matters big time in this sport mate. You can only get away with under preparing or not really fighting at world or elite level for so long.

When Tyson Fury steps up, make no doubt about it? He has shown the ability to step up. Against Kiltschko, and then Wilder.

Kiltschko was a test of Fury's technical skill, Wilder was a test of Fury's courage, resolve, and inner fortitude. But now Fury is coming back to the level where his genuine boxing skills, are going to be tested again 'On top of all the other attributes that will be pressured'.

These jabs or skittish movements he has been doing vs Wilder, Chisora and Whyte may not be as effective against Usyk 'This is just something to consider'.

Let me make this clear, I don't think Fury has shown the ability to out box Usyk. Joshua attempted to do that twice vs Usyk, the second time he combined it with a slightly improved inside game.

Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, it will down to his superior inside game and rough house tactics. That is what I am saying on this thread.

Team Usyk are probably going to be aware of this.

Canelo Alvarez has a superior inside game to Bivol, but? Alvarez could not really apply that inside game. Due to Bivol's greater endurance, movement, defense and mid-long range boxing game.

There is a theoretical chance, that Tyson Fury is in the same position as Canelo Alvarez 'Against Uysk'.

[TheOneAboveAll]

———
We heard the same thing about Wilder. And then it happened. Twice.

So, are you going to be here when Fury does fight Usyk?

Of course. I am always here. Watching.

[fistic flow]

Whyte has been ****** out many times before. Chisora has been beaten many times before. You watch boxing right? You know their records.

So you keep watching, Anthony Joshua beats Dillian Whyte more impressively than Fury.

Fury was doing nothing, up until the knock out. Whyte could hardly move, and he was still getting close to Fury.

Tyson Fury last two fights, no matter how you try and dress it up 'They have not been at World or Elite level'. These are facts.

Usyk's last two fights where at elite level. That is a fact.

Fury skill for skill has not fought at elite level technically since Kiltschko 'That was the last time he fought a fighter, who boxing purist wold agree was a skill for skill a elite level fighter'. And he is still being decked and battered 'These are the colds facts people need to understand' Fury is not miles better than the competition.

Usain Bolt put serious distance between himself, and other elite level sprinters. Sport analyst could see the statistics, that proved this to be correct.

There is no evidence, no statistics that show with certainty that Fury is miles better than his closest competition 'Right now'. Just a bunch of narratives and stories his hardcore fans keep promoting.

Preparation matters big time in this sport mate. You can only get away with under preparing or not really fighting at world or elite level for so long.

When Tyson Fury steps up, make no doubt about it? He has shown the ability to step up. Against Kiltschko, and then Wilder.

Kiltschko was a test of Fury's technical skill, Wilder was a test of Fury's courage, resolve, and inner fortitude. But now Fury is coming back to the level where his genuine boxing skills, are going to be tested again 'On top of all the other attributes that will be pressured'.

These jabs or skittish movements he has been doing vs Wilder, Chisora and Whyte may not be as effective against Usyk 'This is just something to consider'.

Let me make this clear, I don't think Fury has shown the ability to out box Usyk. Joshua attempted to do that twice vs Usyk, the second time he combined it with a slightly improved inside game.

Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, it will down to his superior inside game and rough house tactics. That is what I am saying on this thread.

Team Usyk are probably going to be aware of this.

Canelo Alvarez has a superior inside game to Bivol, but? Alvarez could not really apply that inside game. Due to Bivol's greater endurance, movement, defense and mid-long range boxing game.

There is a theoretical chance, that Tyson Fury is in the same position as Canelo Alvarez 'Against Uysk'.

Sorry mate, pure fantasy, you're talking. Whyte ****** out many times? Joshua, who he almost stopped in the second, and Povetkin, who he'd dropped the round before. And Chisora has only been stopped by Whyte and strangely enough twice by Fury. THOSE are the cold hard facts, you so profligately refer to.

And what is this mythical elite level you keep trying to push? Wilder was WBC champion and certainly with elite level power as he's ****** out everyone except Fury, so keep dreaming up new descriptions to maintain your narrative. Regardless of the kind of fighter he's been in with recently, Fury has demonstrated what he has in previous fights. He doesn't have to try to learn it, like AJ, it's already in him.

The evidence is Fury is unbeaten, the evidence is he beat two long reigning champions, in their own backyards - Klitschko with very little experience in comparison, and Wilder after a three year hiatus and a 140lb weight loss. Usyk struggled with Breidis and Chisora, even Bellew gave him problems during the first part of their fight.

Fury gives Usyk fits with his size, his reach, his unpredictability, plus his power. Like I said before, long or short Tyson wins it.

And I'd scratch the Canelo comparison. You're not gonna win any new converts with that.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Sorry mate, pure fantasy, you're talking. Whyte ****** out many times? Joshua, who he almost stopped in the second, and Povetkin, who he'd dropped the round before. And Chisora has only been stopped by Whyte and strangely enough twice by Fury. THOSE are the cold hard facts, you so profligately refer to.

And what is this mythical elite level you keep trying to push? Wilder was WBC champion and certainly with elite level power as he's ****** out everyone except Fury, so keep dreaming up new descriptions to maintain your narrative. Regardless of the kind of fighter he's been in with recently, Fury has demonstrated what he has in previous fights. He doesn't have to try to learn it, like AJ, it's already in him.

The evidence is Fury is unbeaten, the evidence is he beat two long reigning champions, in their own backyards - Klitschko with very little experience in comparison, and Wilder after a three year hiatus and a 140lb weight loss. Usyk struggled with Breidis and Chisora, even Bellew gave him problems during the first part of their fight.

Fury gives Usyk fits with his size, his reach, his unpredictability, plus his power. Like I said before, long or short Tyson wins it.

And I'd scratch the Canelo comparison. You're not gonna win any new converts with that.

Tyson Fury has never knocked out Derek Chisora, or has never knocked him down.

Only David Haye & Dillian Whyte have knocked out Chisora.

David Haye beat the best version of Chisora head on, and canceled out his momentum.

Even this miles past his peak Chisora, Fury would not really fight him head on. That agreement him and Chisora made pre-fight, Fury never actually adhered to it.

Nothing fantasy about any of this, because it is History.

Fury did not beat Wilder in their first fight. You don't win world championship fights, by being backed up all night and decked twice.

Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder I, was a Draw.

Joshua actually fought a Whyte who could move, a better version of Whyte in my opinion. Whyte has been regressing for sometime.

As I have said before in this thread. All these skills you are talking about Fury demonstrating, he is doing it vs fighters who are not World - Elite level fighters.

The man is still the favorite, but there is no evidence that he is miles better than his closest competition.

[fistic flow]

Tyson Fury has never knocked out Derek Chisora, or has never knocked him down.

Only David Haye & Dillian Whyte have knocked out Chisora.

David Haye beat the best version of Chisora head on, and canceled out his momentum.

Even this miles past his peak Chisora, Fury would not really fight him head on. That agreement him and Chisora made pre-fight, Fury never actually adhered to it.

Nothing fantasy about any of this, because it is History.

Fury did not beat Wilder in their first fight. You don't win world championship fights, by being backed up all night and decked twice.

Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder I, was a Draw.

Joshua actually fought a Whyte who could move, a better version of Whyte in my opinion. Whyte has been regressing for sometime.

As I have said before in this thread. All these skills you are talking about Fury demonstrating, he is doing it vs fighters who are not World - Elite level fighters.

The man is still the favorite, but there is no evidence that he is miles better than his closest competition.

Look, you said Whyte was ****** out many times before which is patently not true. Then, you said Joshua beat a supposedly better version of Whyte (who was raw and certainly not at world level with the likes of Povetkin, Parker, Helenius on his record) and that was more impressive than Fury's KO - again a massive stretch considering Fury didn't lose a round, while Whyte had Joshua tottering all over the place.

And saying Fury was just being backed up all night re Wilder is you being disingenuous. He outboxed him in every round with Wilder's success limited to what you mentioned.

This argument about 'world elite level fighters' is you saying Joshua and that's it. Not much of one, when you strip it down.

I'll look forward to Usyk v Fury, because it will be something different, and yes, competitive. Maybe not so fan friendly, but interesting all the same to see how each adjusts. And that will be elite level.

[Silence]

Fury does not want to fight someone who is going to be moving around all night and making Fury chase him. Fury would rather have someone like Joyce who will always be in front of him so he can do the moving like he did against Wlad.

He fought at his front foot against Wilder and Chisora. He'll catch Usyk eventually and beat him like a stepchild who looks like rabbit.

Joyce is more problematic. There is a reason why they call him Juggernaut. He is the walking wall.

[Toffee]

I was thinking... is Usyk figuring out his opponents or is he imposing his style of boxing on the opponent, because I think there is a difference. For example, he didn't walk Chisora into uppercuts, even though that is pretty effective against leaning cross-guard defense kind of guy (as showed by Fury).

Of course he probably does adjustments of speed and power in his punches, and also his footwork (I am not able to judge it that much). But it seems to me that he generally believes in his style and so it is the latter with help of his superior stamina. What do you think?

It's never one thing. I do believe he goes in with a plan but can adjust better than most (maybe all).

Fury v Usyk would be intriguing because they're both undefeated. We don't know the limits of these guys until we see it. Fury might go in thinking he can lean on Usyk only to find he's too elusive. Usyk might go in thinking his lateral movement will be too good for the lumbering Fury only to find that Fury can up his movement when he needs to.

Both fighters definitely have the ability to adjust. It took Fury all of about 2 minutes to have the 3rd version of Wilder pegged. Usyk does it on the regular.

[crimsonfalcon07]

People making mountains out of molehills here.

The Usyk-Chisora fight was early on in Usyk's heavyweight career. It takes a long time to regain your gas tank and get used to having more weight and muscle on your body when you move up in weight, and that's the most true in the heavyweight division when you can see huge weight differences between fighters. The Usyk who fought Chisora was nothing like the Usyk who beat Joshua. Not to mention, people have good and bad nights. The only people who look good moving up in weight are people who are naturally at that weight class and were severely weight draining to make the lower class. That's not the case with Usyk.

As for Fury, yeah, he gassed out bad against Wilder, coming in with all that weight. A lot will depend on whether he comes in with the same weight that he did against Wilder, or if he comes down in weight more to be more nimble. If he comes in heavy, it's because his gameplan will be to try to be the bully, and his stamina is going to be bad. Unless he catches Usyk clean, that will be easier for Usyk to win rounds. If he comes in lighter, the question will be if he's got enough pep to score knockdowns against Usyk. He's a huge guy. Usyk has a mountain of a task fighting him, but count me as one who thinks Usyk has a better chance than people are giving him credit for. I wonder if he'll get credit if he does best Fury, or if people will make excuses like they did for Joshua.

[allen23]

Why? Usyk has superior movement, hand speed, punch combination speed and endurance.

Now I know that people like to claim that Fury has great endurance.

But when you check the statistics, you will then realize that Fury's endurance is completely overrated.

On another thread about Anthony Joshua, I posted the statistics of Fury's & Joshua's elite level fights.

Joshua was out working Fury in most of his fights, or at-least matching him. But still there is this narrative that Fury has monster endurance.

Usyk & Joyce statistically have the best endurance in the Heavyweight division. Joshua is criticized for his lack of endurance, but he has better endurance than 95% of the other Heavyweights in the division 'It is just a area of his game, which is not his strong point'.

Fury & Joshua are pretty much level on endurance. When you analyse the statistics.

Joshua has actually in my opinion achieved greater feats of endurance vs Kiltschko.

I.E Being decked by Kiltschko mid way through the fight, to then fight back and Knock out Kiltschko late in the fight 'Is a more impressive feat of endurance than anything Fury has ever achieved'.

Fury was decked by Wilder in round 12 of their first fight. It was still a great feat of endurance to survive the knock down, but Fury only had to fight back survive until the end of the round.

But now specifically talking about Usyk. It is Tyson Fury's inside game, which is the game changing attribute.

Fury has not shown the ability of late to out box a fighter of Usyk's caliber. If Fury beats Usyk at this stage, I personally think it will be because of his superior inside game.

Note: One thing people continue to overlook with Fury is? Tyson Fury skill for skill has not actually fought at elite level since the Kiltschko fight. That was the last time Tyson Fury actually fought another fighter, who technically all round was a elite level fighter. Deontay Wilder was a elite level fight, and I do rate Wilder extremely highly 'But in terms of technical skill, no boxing purist rates Wilder as a elite level fighter' That is no disrespect towards Wilder, I am specifically just talking about his boxing skills.

Tyson Fury is having all these stay busy fights, against fighters who are ether domestic or high end European level fighters. Do boxing fans here actually believe there is any carry over from these fights? I don't think Fury is learning anything new from beating Whyte & Chisora.

But Usyk in comparison has just beaten Anthony Joshua, who is a solid super heavyweight back to back twice over 12 rounds 'In a Super Elite match up'. And people may mock Joshua, but skill for skill from mid-long range he is a very capable fighter 'It is not Fury's boxing ability that is going to bother Usyk, it is the violent inside game'.

I rate Tyson Fury as the number 1 Heavyweight. But there is possibility that his lack of experience, in fighting elite level technically skilled fighters 'Might just show up vs Usyk' This is definitely something to consider and debate leading up to this fight.

One or two things I'd like to point out - you compared fury/Joshua endurance. Furys mental endurance is off the charts, you cannot measure it solely with statistics but the composure he shows when he's clipped or under pressure is awesome. Joshua on the other hand shows extreme stress under pressure. That reaction causes negative energy sapping your endurance capabilities.

You called Joshua 'super elite'. That term should be reserved for the best of the best and I'm afraid he is not. Joshua has glaring limitations that usyk has, and fury and Joyce would surely exploit.

I get it you don't like fury but he's the best heavyweight of this era even if his resume is a little shallow. Still if he added usyk to wilder and klitschko the rest becomes irrelevant