Comments Thread For: Tyson Fury Views Joe Joyce as Tougher Opponent Than Oleksandr Usyk

[Cyborg Fangerloo]

Why? Usyk has superior movement, hand speed, punch combination speed and endurance.

Now I know that people like to claim that Fury has great endurance.

But when you check the statistics, you will then realize that Fury's endurance is completely overrated.

On another thread about Anthony Joshua, I posted the statistics of Fury's & Joshua's elite level fights.

Joshua was out working Fury in most of his fights, or at-least matching him. But still there is this narrative that Fury has monster endurance.

Usyk & Joyce statistically have the best endurance in the Heavyweight division. Joshua is criticized for his lack of endurance, but he has better endurance than 95% of the other Heavyweights in the division 'It is just a area of his game, which is not his strong point'.

Fury & Joshua are pretty much level on endurance. When you analyse the statistics.

Joshua has actually in my opinion achieved greater feats of endurance vs Kiltschko.

I.E Being decked by Kiltschko mid way through the fight, to then fight back and Knock out Kiltschko late in the fight 'Is a more impressive feat of endurance than anything Fury has ever achieved'.

Fury was decked by Wilder in round 12 of their first fight. It was still a great feat of endurance to survive the knock down, but Fury only had to fight back survive until the end of the round.

But now specifically talking about Usyk. It is Tyson Fury's inside game, which is the game changing attribute.

Fury has not shown the ability of late to out box a fighter of Usyk's caliber. If Fury beats Usyk at this stage, I personally think it will be because of his superior inside game.

Note: One thing people continue to overlook with Fury is? Tyson Fury skill for skill has not actually fought at elite level since the Kiltschko fight. That was the last time Tyson Fury actually fought another fighter, who technically all round was a elite level fighter. Deontay Wilder was a elite level fight, and I do rate Wilder extremely highly 'But in terms of technical skill, no boxing purist rates Wilder as a elite level fighter' That is no disrespect towards Wilder, I am specifically just talking about his boxing skills.

Tyson Fury is having all these stay busy fights, against fighters who are ether domestic or high end European level fighters. Do boxing fans here actually believe there is any carry over from these fights? I don't think Fury is learning anything new from beating Whyte & Chisora.

But Usyk in comparison has just beaten Anthony Joshua, who is a solid super heavyweight back to back twice over 12 rounds 'In a Super Elite match up'. And people may mock Joshua, but skill for skill from mid-long range he is a very capable fighter 'It is not Fury's boxing ability that is going to bother Usyk, it is the violent inside game'.

I rate Tyson Fury as the number 1 Heavyweight. But there is possibility that his lack of experience, in fighting elite level technically skilled fighters 'Might just show up vs Usyk' This is definitely something to consider and debate leading up to this fight.

there is one thing you failed to note in this post that is more that the great equalizer. We did not see it on display with Chisora because he has a lead face and head, but Fury learned how to throw heavy shots since Klitschko. I saw Usyk wabbled a bit against Joshua and now you have a guy with better accuracy as well as someone that friggin mauls you on the inside and sucks the life out of you with his limbs and weight.
I simply see Fury as being too “rough” for Usyk and see Usyk as having to pack six lunches and fight the perfect fight stylistically to have a chance.

[BlackRobb]

Yes Tyson, after fighting body bags in 2022, give us some big fights in 2023. How kind of you.

[removed]

Fury telling the truth, Joyce is the tougher fight.

[hugh grant]

I think both will be tough but I think joyce will be more entertaining.
I think usyk will be harder to hit, whilst joyce will be hit but will keep coming. Usyk will keep coming as he's got good engine

[removed]

Yes Tyson, after fighting body bags in 2022, give us some big fights in 2023. How kind of you.

Fury fought his mandatory Whyte this year, yknow, the same man who everyone claimed that Fury was scared of and would duck.

[BlackRobb]

Fury fought his mandatory Whyte this year, yknow, the same man who everyone claimed that Fury was scared of and would duck.

Stop it. No sane person believed Fury was ducking that body bag.

[takenotes]

Fury does not want to fight someone who is going to be moving around all night and making Fury chase him. Fury would rather have someone like Joyce who will always be in front of him so he can do the moving like he did against Wlad.

[MikeyG]

No-one can say Usyk has no chance.

His skill is figuring out his opponents. He's figured out every opponent he's faced to date.

He can't figure out Fury? What evidence is there that can't happen?

I was thinking... is Usyk figuring out his opponents or is he imposing his style of boxing on the opponent, because I think there is a difference. For example, he didn't walk Chisora into uppercuts, even though that is pretty effective against leaning cross-guard defense kind of guy (as showed by Fury).

Of course he probably does adjustments of speed and power in his punches, and also his footwork (I am not able to judge it that much). But it seems to me that he generally believes in his style and so it is the latter with help of his superior stamina. What do you think?

[PRINCEKOOL]

May I ask if you saved and/or remember the post you gave the like?

I have spoken about Fury's endurance, in comparison to Joshua's many times before. This is just one the post.

Again, I am not stating that Fury has bad endurance 'It is better than most heavyweights'. But I am stating that it is clearly overrated.

At some point, his hardcore fans seemed to just create this narrative that he has monster endurance. There is no evidence for this 'None'.

Fury gets fatigued in most of his competitive fights. To the point were he makes mistakes. By round 2-3 vs Wilder 3 he was fatigued.

Check the statistics of Joshua's performances vs Usyk. Skill for skill it was a higher level fight than Wilder vs Fury. Joshua has gotten down on himself, but? The statistics show that it was one of his best performance, skill for skill and in terms of effort.

Usyk & Joyce have shown the ability to match the endurance of top Welter Weights to even Middle Weights at times. It is not just about punch statistics, Usyk went above 700 punches in his rematch with Joshua 'He combined that with movement, and constant defense'.

Joyce went off the charts vs Parker, I believe he was close to 900 punches. Tyson Fury has never experienced such a intensity at world or elite level before inside a boxing ring.

Tyson Fury is the number 1 Heavyweight, I rank him as number 1.He has the two best wins in the division. But I don't think he is miles better than the competition, I don't see the margin in abilities like the media try and make out 'The performances against genuine skill for skill elite level fighters has not been there of late'.

Have you actually analysed Anthony Joshua's work rate in all of his elite level fights? Have you actually compared his work rate with other heavyweights?

Anthony Joshua is out working or at-least matching Tyson Fury, when you compare their performances.

But for some reason, Tyson Fury apparently has monster level endurance. Monster level endurance that makes you look like a complete state after 2 rounds vs Deontay Wilder III.

It is only really Usyk and Joyce in this era of Heavyweights, who have elite level endurance.

Anthony Joshua's endurance is not super great, but compared to 95% of the other Heavyweights in the game 'Joshua's endurance is satisfactory'.

Does Andy Ruiz Junior have better endurance than Joshua? No.

Here are some statistics for you:

Anthony Joshua's total out put vs Wladimir Kiltschko was 355 punches. The fight lasted into the 11 th round.

Tyson Fury's total out put vs Wladimir Kiltschko was 371 punches.

Anthony Joshua's total out put vs Usyk I was 641 punches. Joshua achieved a higher work rate than Usyk.

Tyson Fury's total out put vs Deontay Wilder I was 327 punches. The fight lasted the full 12 rounds. I.E Deontay Wilder's total out put was 430 punches. The fight was a draw, Fury was backed up all night and decked twice etc.

Anthony Joshua's total out put vs Usyk II was 492 punches.

Tyson Fury's total out put vs Deontay Wilder II was 267 punches.

Conclusion: As you can see, Joshua's endurance is nowhere near as bad as people make out. And a certain Tyson Fury's endurance is completely and utterly overrated by miles. I am not claiming that Joshua's endurance is great, but within this era of heavyweights? It is satisfactory.

I have went on record and stated, that if Fury loses to Uysk 'It will be because he fatigues and starts making mistakes'.

[PRINCEKOOL]

But not outboxed, which you've just been arguing. Whyte was mandatory for how long? And by that metric, you discount Chisora, so the only better fighter that Usyk has upped his game with is Joshua, who could hardly prepare Usyk for the kind of challenges Fury presents.

And going back to your previous point about Eubank Jr, giving different looks is hardly the same as having the ability to win a fight boxing purely as a leftie.

None of Usyk's past foes are Fury, or anything like him, in length, weight or style. So how exactly do they help? Long or short game, Fury takes it.

Anthony Joshua beats Dillian Whyte more impressively than Tyson Fury. Usyk's last two fights have not been at the same level as Tyson Fury's.

Usyk has back to back fought in two super elite fights.

Tyson Fury has not fought at genuine world level since Deontay Wilder. Whyte & Chisora are domestic to high end European level fighters at the time Fury got to them.

Good wins, but? There are many other heavyweights out there that would push and probably beat those fighters more impressively.

Fury is still fighting well, but against competition that are stylistically not really asking him any questions. Fighters who are miles outside their peak.

These stay busy fights he has been having, I don't think there is much carry over to elite level 'Fury is learning nothing new from beating Whyte & Chisora'.

Maybe this sort of preparation shows up when he returns to World & Elite level? This is something to consider.

I still make Tyson Fury the favorite to beat these fighters. But as you can see it is not as certain as people make out.