Canelo Alvarez vs James Toney

[mrpain81]

People only watch the Barkley highlights and Toney looked amazing there, But the truth if Toney was super inconsistent and was lazy inside and outside the ring. Canelo can definitely win at 168.

[Haka]

Both have done 4 weight classes. Toney failed at every single weight class he fought at other than Crusierweight where he had one fight. Canelo failed at 2 of the 4. Try again.

The judges didn't do that because he didn't win 6 rounds. Canelo arguably won 5 rounds against Bivol, the average fan scorecard is 8 rounds to 4. He won anywhere between 2 and 4 rounds. That's not a 12-0 shutout.

Whereas against Roy Jones, Toney lost every second of every round and looked like he'd just taken up boxing that day. There's no comparison.

You don't even need to go that far anyway, Toney looked worst against unranked scrubs in Williams, Tiberi and Thazdi than Canelo has ever looked in his career.

I mean, you can SAY that Toney is "levels above Canelo" but his actual career doesn't show that. And to go back to the original point, he's never shown in his career that he could easily beat or dominate a fighter of Canelo's level like being laughably suggested in this thread.

Yes but those are not the same, Canelo has been draining (and carefully managing) his 154/160 career and the 175 was a farce with the rehydration scheme on Kov and the rest, this is common knowledge. Fighting at HW is something else against big boned and heavier fighters. The gap in weight between those weightclasses is much smaller than the gap in weight in LHW/Cruiser/HW, especially since HW sets no weight limit.

[IronDanHamza]

Yes but those are not the same, Canelo has been draining (and carefully managing) his 154/160 career and the 175 was a farce with the rehydration scheme on Kov and the rest, this is common knowledge. Fighting at HW is something else against big boned and heavier fighters. The gap in weight between those weightclasses is much smaller than the gap in weight in LHW/Cruiser/HW, especially since HW sets no weight limit.

Irrelevant.

Toney did nothing of note at both LHW and HW.

So in actual fact I stand corrected Toney did 3 weight classes, not 4 like Canelo.

[Haka]

Irrelevant.

Toney did nothing of note at both LHW and HW.

So in actual fact I stand corrected Toney did 3 weight classes, not 4 like Canelo.

Toney is just a beautiful boxer to watch. Canelo style only works because he comes in heavy.

[real raw]

Watch it again, it was all Toney from round 3 and on, Nunn had nothing but a jab that mostly missed.

Toney was so thin! lol. Nunn was a damned good fighter, I was sorry to see him lose that one.

[!! Shawn]

He didn't beat Jirov in a clear manner and Jirov isn't Canelo's level either.

It happened when Toney fought Roy Jones and he looked like he had never boxed in a day in his life.

Also, Canelo won 3-4 rounds, Toney won 0.

Let's stick it what actually happened.

#1 Jirov was a Olympic Gold Medalist and Val Barker Trophy winner (Which puts him in the same company as Roy Jones Jr, and Lomachenko) who was 31-0 with 28 knockouts on his 7th title defense when they fought, and Toney ate his way to cruiser, and looked like he didn't come in shape. I don't think Canelo has a decisive win over anyone with similar Pedigree.


#2. Comparing Toneys loss against peak prime Roy Jones when Toney really didn't come in shape, struggled to make weight against a roy who realistically probably at that moment was the best fighter thats ever been in the ring, instead of I dunno... Canelo getting completely shut out by an old Mayweather is an interesting choice.

Especially since that means you are asserting that Bivol and Prime Roy Jones are equally talented fighters, which I think even you know is ridiculous.

We all have seen Canelos limitations on display several times. Against Trout, Lara, Mayweather, GGG, and to an extent Daniel Jacobs.

He has cement feet, and struggles with people that can move. He requires his feet to be set to throw punches, because he likes to throw every shot with bad intent. He's hopped around picking off vulnerable opponents at the right time as of late, which has made him look better than he really is, as was made clear by Bivol. Bivol even pointed this out in a post fight interview that Canelo only throws hard punches, and I don't think he was intending to say that Canelo is heavy handed so everything feels hard, I think he was pointing out that he doesn't setup his punches and will always have problems with a style like his.

[Haka]

#1 Jirov was a Olympic Gold Medalist and Val Barker Trophy winner (Which puts him in the same company as Roy Jones Jr, and Lomachenko) who was 31-0 with 28 knockouts on his 7th title defense when they fought, and Toney ate his way to cruiser, and looked like he didn't come in shape. I don't think Canelo has a decisive win over anyone with similar Pedigree.


#2. Comparing Toneys loss against peak prime Roy Jones when Toney really didn't come in shape, struggled to make weight against a roy who realistically probably at that moment was the best fighter thats ever been in the ring, instead of I dunno... Canelo getting completely shut out by an old Mayweather is an interesting choice.

Especially since that means you are asserting that Bivol and Prime Roy Jones are equally talented fighters, which I think even you know is ridiculous.

We all have seen Canelos limitations on display several times. Against Trout, Lara, Mayweather, GGG, and to an extent Daniel Jacobs.

He has cement feet, and struggles with people that can move. He requires his feet to be set to throw punches, because he likes to throw every shot with bad intent. He's hopped around picking off vulnerable opponents at the right time as of late, which has made him look better than he really is, as was made clear by Bivol. Bivol even pointed this out in a post fight interview that Canelo only throws hard punches, and I don't think he was intending to say that Canelo is heavy handed so everything feels hard, I think he was pointing out that he doesn't setup his punches and will always have problems with a style like his.

Yes and that is a beginners mistake!

[IronDanHamza]

#1 Jirov was a Olympic Gold Medalist and Val Barker Trophy winner (Which puts him in the same company as Roy Jones Jr, and Lomachenko) who was 31-0 with 28 knockouts on his 7th title defense when they fought, and Toney ate his way to cruiser, and looked like he didn't come in shape. I don't think Canelo has a decisive win over anyone with similar Pedigree.


#2. Comparing Toneys loss against peak prime Roy Jones when Toney really didn't come in shape, struggled to make weight against a roy who realistically probably at that moment was the best fighter thats ever been in the ring, instead of I dunno... Canelo getting completely shut out by an old Mayweather is an interesting choice.

Especially since that means you are asserting that Bivol and Prime Roy Jones are equally talented fighters, which I think even you know is ridiculous.

We all have seen Canelos limitations on display several times. Against Trout, Lara, Mayweather, GGG, and to an extent Daniel Jacobs.

He has cement feet, and struggles with people that can move. He requires his feet to be set to throw punches, because he likes to throw every shot with bad intent. He's hopped around picking off vulnerable opponents at the right time as of late, which has made him look better than he really is, as was made clear by Bivol. Bivol even pointed this out in a post fight interview that Canelo only throws hard punches, and I don't think he was intending to say that Canelo is heavy handed so everything feels hard, I think he was pointing out that he doesn't setup his punches and will always have problems with a style like his.

Couldn't care less about Amateur pedigree unless they fought in the Amateurs, they didn't. Howard Davis Jr won the Val Barker trophy aswell, it's irrelevant.

Jirov didn't beat a single ranked fighter as a professional. Not a good pro at all, did absolutely nothing of note in his career. And that fight was close anyway.


I never once asserted that Bivol and Roy Jones are on the same level. I was responding to the notion that Canelo was shutout 12-0 and Toney hasn't been, when, he has, in a lot more embarrassing fashion.

Ok and we've seen Toney's glaring limitations on show aswell when he fought Williams, Sosa, Tiberi, Johnson, Roy Jones, Thazdi and so forth. What's your point?

Toney has cement feet and struggles with people that move aswell. What's your point?

[!! Shawn]

Irrelevant.

Toney did nothing of note at both LHW and HW.

So in actual fact I stand corrected Toney did 3 weight classes, not 4 like Canelo.

What 4 weight classes has Canelo done anything of note? If you are counting Kovalev for Canelo, you have to count Holyfield, Ruiz, and Sam Peter (since everyone know he was robbed) for Toney, especially as it was immediately after Jirov, which also kind of shows how much Toney was eating considering he put on 30lb between the fights and 73 fights into his career Toney wasn't exactly at his freshest, 24 fights after Roy Jones, and also considering that he unified the IBA and WBA titles.

Im just going to ignore all the PED stuff and Ruiz fight being ruled a no contest because Toney pissed hot, since you know... Canelo pissed hot.

[IronDanHamza]

What 4 weight classes has Canelo done anything of note? If you are counting Kovalev for Canelo, you have to count Holyfield, Ruiz, and Sam Peter (since everyone know he was robbed) for Toney, especially as it was immediately after Jirov, which also kind of shows how much Toney was eating considering he put on 30lb between the fights and 73 fights into his career Toney wasn't exactly at his freshest, 24 fights after Roy Jones, and also considering that he unified the IBA and WBA titles.

Im just going to ignore all the PED stuff and Ruiz fight being ruled a no contest because Toney pissed hot, since you know... Canelo pissed hot.

Erm all of them? He's a legit world champion in all 4. 2 of which Lineal 1 of which undisputed.

Toney is a 3 weight champion.

Yeah...no. He wasn't robbed agasint Sam Peter at all and he doesn't hold a win over John Ruiz either. He beat Holyfield's corpse at HW, which wasn't for a belt unlike Canelo's win over Kovalev which was.

Let's stick to the facts here not fantasy.