At this stage Dana White taking over boxing and making it UFC style would be great

[dan_cov]

To make it clear yes the UFC tends to put on the best fighting the best or top fighters at least fight more often but at the same time I am saying its not as much as we think.
The UFC hasn't put on many super fights and its almost always to protect their cashcows. They don't like competition.

If it was truly about the best fighting the best they wouldn't give them such raw deals. We'd have got Fedor vs Brock, Cyborg vs Rousey and so on.
There are guys right now outside the UFC who may well be the best in the world but the UFC acts like they don't exist.

Is it the best vs the best? Or just the best fighters you are willing to sign and claim as the best?

If its the former then sign AJ McKee and the likes, put them vs your champions.

[TMLT87]

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In boxing we moan this fight should have happened years back or they wasn't ready, this doesn't happen in the UFC.

Yeah because the fights get made at the right time. If Ngannou and Gane spent years fighting guys like Ivanov and Tybura now while talking **** to each other, then finally fighting each other in like 2025, people would be like "what the ****?"

I can list many more including Ronda Rousey vs Cyborg and how they protected Rousey and slandered and assassinated Cyborg in the media to protect their cashcow who was never truly #1 and would have got badly beaten by Cyborg. What promoter, business, promotional company does this? I honestly think that woman had grounds to sue the way they treated her.

Cyborg was in a different weight class and didnt enter the UFC until the year after Holm took Rondas head off. They obviously didnt protect their cashcow that much considering she was driven to retirement and the WWE within 4 years of them signing her. With boxing promotion methods she and Conor would probably still be undefeated world champions.

Could you imagine a world where boxing fans would accept world champions, top p4p fighters fighting guys with over 20 losses in main events? Could you imagine anyone accepting this being spoken of as a superfight?

The biggest fight in HW history, the biggest fight in womens history and the two best p4p fighters never happened in the UFC

To me the best fighting the best indicates a clear cut #1 vs #2 not #1 vs a fighter with 20 or more losses or a guy who has puts together maybe 2 wins over so & so competition.

Records in boxing are often hugely deceptive. Michael Seals was 25-3 and just lost a boxing match to a 14-8 MMA fighter who was 0-1 in boxing. Fabio Maldonado went 26-0 in boxing at one point too and hes a bum in both sports. Theres 20 year old prospects and random nobodies with big undefeated records and then conversely Derevyanchenko is 13-4.

Which fighter specifically are you talking about with the "20 or more losses and 2 wins over so and so competition"? i'm assuming Jorge, and if thats the case you're conveniently leaving out that Usman is a pretty active champion and was fighting Colby (twice), Burns and Woodley alongside those fights, and also fought Edwards back in the day.

I feel like you're scraping and reaching to try and draw equivalences here tbh. Again none of these examples are remotely the same as Spence/Crawford, AJ/Wilder, AJ/Fury etc, or wanting Floyd/Pac in like 2009 and getting it in 2015.

[dan_cov]

Yeah because the fights get made at the right time. If Ngannou and Gane spent years fighting guys like Ivanov and Tybura now while talking **** to each other, then finally fighting each other in like 2025, people would be like "what the ****?"



Cyborg was in a different weight class and didnt enter the UFC until the year after Holm took Rondas head off. They obviously didnt protect their cashcow that much considering she was driven to retirement and the WWE within 4 years of them signing her. With boxing promotion methods she and Conor would probably still be undefeated world champions.



Records in boxing are often hugely deceptive. Michael Seals was 25-3 and just lost a boxing match to a 14-8 MMA fighter who was 0-1 in boxing. Fabio Maldonado went 26-0 in boxing at one point too and hes a bum in both sports. Theres 20 year old prospects and random nobodies with big undefeated records and then conversely Derevyanchenko is 13-4.

Which fighter specifically are you talking about with the "20 or more losses and 2 wins over so and so competition"? i'm assuming Jorge, and if thats the case you're conveniently leaving out that Usman is a pretty active champion and was fighting Colby (twice), Burns and Woodley alongside those fights, and also fought Edwards back in the day.

I feel like you're scraping and reaching to try and draw equivalences here tbh. Again none of these examples are remotely the same as Spence/Crawford, AJ/Wilder, AJ/Fury etc, or wanting Floyd/Pac in like 2009 and getting it in 2015.

That was only because Dana wouldn't sign her and wanted to keep the hypetrain rolling. Cyborg was willing to give in to all their silly demands and did everything to land that fight.
There is a lot of record padding and I'd argue it was because boxing takes a lot longer to master and to learn and a loss in boxing is far more devastating than losses in MMA where we're still seeing guys taking it up late with no real combat sports background and succeed. You're not taking up boxing in your late twenties and having any sort of success but you can do this in MMA.

There are a lot of guys in the UFC who would be looked at as journeymen in any other combat sport - Jorge, the Diaz bros in particular Nate, Andre Arlovski (an equivalent to him would be a flat out bum in boxing terms) yet here he is aged 45? or so and still in and out the top 10 despite having a dozen or more knockout losses at every level.
There isn't a large talent pool compared to boxing a guy can come in the UFC and beat Arvloski (who hasn't?) and that likely warrants him nearing in on a top 10 spot. If a boxer was to fight the equivalent he's probably not breaking the top 300 in any division.

I feel the standards are totally different Usman yeah he fights good competition mainly in Colby, Burns but a guy like Woodley - He's just lost nearly every single round in his last 5-6 fights and lost to a Youtuber. He hasn't won a fight in years! About 4 years or something now?

We may get fights late in boxing but at least we usually get them. A lot of the time in the UFC we have never got these fights at all.
We get good fights but most of the big mega fights imo we never got.

[dan_cov]

They keep signing up these fighters, these hype machines whom some of which fight like bar room brawlers from small town shows but why is their no real effort into signing all these top fighters and reigning world champions in other organisations? All I hear is downplaying because the UFC sees it as a bad look if fighters from another org come over and derail the supposed #1

Yaroslav Amosov, AJ McKee are tremendous talents and there is no doubt they would at a bare minimal wreck a lot of guys in the UFC top 10.

And if these guys lose outside of the UFC its used against them as some supposed proof they aren't good enough to be in the UFC but if you're fighting under the UFC banner you can lose to anyone as long as they're a fellow UFC fighter and it doesn't matter.

There are some real double standards not just in comparison to boxing but in MMA

A lot are beating guys who in truth shouldn't perhaps even be in the UFC and they're hyped as the next big thing but then you have fighters in other organisations far more proven yet nobody is on Dana's case to sign them or to make these fights happen. A lot of big fights aren't happening because they use the banner as a safety blanket and won't let fighters in or their fighters compete outside the UFC.

[dan_cov]

Why is there such effort, promotion, expense to find 10-3 bar room brawlers and bring them in as fodder when you let guys like Mousasi walk away? When you have guys like Amosov, McKee, Pitbull etc etc outside the UFC

If its the best vs the best you wouldn't be signing these guys that you are even a big signing like Michael Chandler who was absolutely starched just 18 months prior in seconds.

Look at their next cards how many of those fights are the best vs the best? I think 1 in Charles vs Poirier the rest for most part are actually rather disgusting mismatches.

[IronDanHamza]

That was only because Dana wouldn't sign her and wanted to keep the hypetrain rolling. Cyborg was willing to give in to all their silly demands and did everything to land that fight.
There is a lot of record padding and I'd argue it was because boxing takes a lot longer to master and to learn and a loss in boxing is far more devastating than losses in MMA where we're still seeing guys taking it up late with no real combat sports background and succeed. You're not taking up boxing in your late twenties and having any sort of success but you can do this in MMA.

There are a lot of guys in the UFC who would be looked at as journeymen in any other combat sport - Jorge, the Diaz bros in particular Nate, Andre Arlovski (an equivalent to him would be a flat out bum in boxing terms) yet here he is aged 45? or so and still in and out the top 10 despite having a dozen or more knockout losses at every level.
There isn't a large talent pool compared to boxing a guy can come in the UFC and beat Arvloski (who hasn't?) and that likely warrants him nearing in on a top 10 spot. If a boxer was to fight the equivalent he's probably not breaking the top 300 in any division.

I feel the standards are totally different Usman yeah he fights good competition mainly in Colby, Burns but a guy like Woodley - He's just lost nearly every single round in his last 5-6 fights and lost to a Youtuber. He hasn't won a fight in years! About 4 years or something now?

We may get fights late in boxing but at least we usually get them. A lot of the time in the UFC we have never got these fights at all.
We get good fights but most of the big mega fights imo we never got.

Woodley was champion when Usman fought him. Big underdog aswell.

I’m not going to pretend like I’m an MMA expert because I’m far from it.

But Usman’s run of competition alone is better than any boxers in the last 10 years or more.

Every weight class in the UFC, all the top 5 have fought each other atleast once.

In Boxing today, there’s not a single weight class that has happened except maybe Crusierweight during Usyk’s run.

[IronDanHamza]

Why is there such effort, promotion, expense to find 10-3 bar room brawlers and bring them in as fodder when you let guys like Mousasi walk away? When you have guys like Amosov, McKee, Pitbull etc etc outside the UFC

If its the best vs the best you wouldn't be signing these guys that you are even a big signing like Michael Chandler who was absolutely starched just 18 months prior in seconds.

Look at their next cards how many of those fights are the best vs the best? I think 1 in Charles vs Poirier the rest for most part are actually rather disgusting mismatches.

Their PPV main events are two of the top 5 in the division fighting each other every single time. More time that not #1 vs #2 or #3

How many times do we get that in Boxing? Barely ever.

We get Tank vs #9.

Few weeks we get Ortiz #7 vs Martin who’s unranked.

It’s night and day in regards to quality of fights.

[Scopedog]

It would probably be ideal if it happened but it basically never will. There are way too many conflicting vested interests in play for anything like that to ever happen.

[dan_cov]

Woodley was champion when Usman fought him. Big underdog aswell.

I’m not going to pretend like I’m an MMA expert because I’m far from it.

But Usman’s run of competition alone is better than any boxers in the last 10 years or more.

Every weight class in the UFC, all the top 5 have fought each other atleast once.

In Boxing today, there’s not a single weight class that has happened except maybe Crusierweight during Usyk’s run.

He caught Woodley at the right time and Woodleys game just never evolved. Its certainly a win that looked better at the time. He lost 3 fights after not inc Jake Paul and lost every minute of every round.

A good run mainly because he beat Colby twice but a run where every nearly single opponent is a lot naturally smaller, Colby is about the only natural WW he's fought and he is a tiny WW. Even then if we are 100 who has he (Colby) beaten? I'm not sure he has ever beaten a top 5 opponent, maybe only 1 or 2 opponents possibly even top 10? His run is good compared to most in the UFC and he has been dominant but its nowhere near that of Canelo's, Klitschkos, Roman Gonzalez, Usyk, I wouldn't even put it on par with GGG among many, many others.

There are so few fighters that a few consecutive wins over anyone else in the org will land you in the top 10 in a lot of divisions in the UFC. Then they're beating for example a 45yr old Jiu Jitsu practioner in Damian Maia and that is getting them top 5 rankings. Don't get me wrong his Jiu Jitsu is next level stuff but that is all there is to his game.
Watch Maia vs Ben Askren if you want to see a comically bad fight.
There is no depth there so its so easy for them to waltz into the top 5-10. There are not even 700 fighters with 12 weight divisions. On average around 55 fighters per division and that is now nevermind a few years back. It doesn't take much for them to get high rankings.

[dan_cov]

Rankings are far more accurate in boxing as you have to usually beat a complete variety of styles and show a long consistency against dozens of opponents.

The UFC has many fighters that have lost maybe 35-40% of fights yet are still in and out the top 10.

Jorge Masvidal he was top 5 not long back the guys 35-15 and got there beating Ben Askren, Darren Till who has lost 4 of his last 5 and that was s/d and should be 5 losses in his last 6 if it wasn't for a bad decision and beating a 20-13 Nate Diaz. He had back-to-back losses prior to this run vs these awful opponents yet this got him ranked #2 in the world and funnily enough this one of Usmans best wins

This is just one example of what we are dealing with here in regards to how crazy the rankings are and how easy it can be to obtain a a high ranking