Pacquiao-Cotto Title Bout Rests on WBO's Section 15

[prsi]

In any case there is no range. There is only an upper limit of 147. There is no lower limit. Henry Armstrong only weighed 133lb when he won the Welterweight title and weighed less that 140lb in most of his defences. There is no lower limit.

The WBO rules are here. They do not specify a range of 141-147. They only specify an upper limit of 147.

I don't understand why so few people seem to be able to grasp this fact. You could weigh 108lb and still fight for a Welterweight title under the rules of boxing, provided the fight could be made.

But if you change the limit from 147 to 145, it becomes a catchweight fight. 145 is not in any range because there is no range.

You can weigh lower than 145 and still fight for th WW title, but buy definition an interpretation o the rule what you CAN NOT do is limit the boxer to a maximum 145lbs. The rule is very clear it is UP TO 147 not UP TO 145. I dont understand why people can not understand this fact.

[wecreep]

Sure you can weigh 130 and still fight for a welterweight title against a WW. Nobody disputes that. But if that WW fighter had to come in weighing under 141 what division would they be fighting in? So the range is relevant as a gauge of weight divisions.

Sure, Cotto has to come in @ 145 and he agreed to that. But if it's going to be for his WW title, I think the dynamic changes. If Pac wants to add a WW title to his case then he has to respect the rules that allow the max. weight of 147.

So yes, in the sense that if both fighters came in below the 141 minimum or one was to exceed the 147 maximum, this range is relevant.

[wecreep]

Exactly!

You cannot limit a WW Champ to the max limit of 145. Fight the champ within the stated criteria of what deems a WW or let's just have a good scrap at the catch weight of 145 with no title on the line.

[Dave Rado]

Sure you can weigh 130 and still fight for a welterweight title against a WW. Nobody disputes that. But if that WW fighter had to come in weighing under 141 what division would they be fighting in? So the range is relevant as a gauge of weight divisions.

Sure, Cotto has to come in @ 145 and he agreed to that. But if it's going to be for his WW title, I think the dynamic changes. If Pac wants to add a WW title to his case then he has to respect the rules that allow the max. weight of 147.

So yes, in the sense that if both fighters came in below the 141 minimum or one was to exceed the 147 maximum, this range is relevant.

You're missing my point. My point was that both fighters can weigh anything they like provided that the upper limit is set at 147lb, and it is then a valid Welterweight title fight. But if either fighter is limited to a maximum limit that is less that 147lb then it is not a valid Welterweight title fight, under the normal rules of boxing, which is why it is called a catchweight fight. So all discussion of a non-existent lower limit of 141 is a complete red herring.

The point is that under the rules of boxing, the upper limit for Welterweight is 147, not 145. Those who claim that 145 is within the so-called "Welterweight range" are wrong, because there is no Welterweight range, only an upper limit of 147. If you specifiy an upper limit of 145, then it's a catchweight bout and should not be for a Welterweight title.

There have been title fights at catchweight before, but (a) it was done before only because the defending champion agreed voluntarily to it on those occasions - for a sanctioning body to try to force a title holder to put his title on the line in a catchweight bout is completely unprecedented in the whole of boxing history; and (b) it was bull**** when it was done before, because the normal rules of boxing were changed for a single fight in order to help a single fighter, which diminished the integrity of the titles.

[wecreep]

Understood.

Cool then, we agree.

[wecreep]

Was I wrong in assuming if both fighters came in right below the 141 mark it would be within the limits of a different division? Wouldn't they be fighting for Pacs JrWW title in this case.

I'm not challenging you- just trying to learn the specifics here.

[prsi]

You're missing my point. My point was that both fighters can weigh anything they like provided that the upper limit is set at 147lb, and it is then a valid Welterweight title fight. But if either fighter is limited to a maximum limit that is less that 147lb then it is not a valid Welterweight title fight, under the normal rules of boxing, which is why it is called a catchweight fight. So all discussion of a non-existent lower limit of 141 is a complete red herring.

The point is that under the rules of boxing, the upper limit for Welterweight is 147, not 145. Those who claim that 145 is within the so-called "Welterweight range" are wrong, because there is no Welterweight range, only an upper limit of 147. If you specifiy an upper limit of 145, then it's a catchweight bout and should not be for a Welterweight title.

There have been title fights at catchweight before, but (a) it was done before only because the defending champion agreed voluntarily to it on those occasions - for a sanctioning body to try to force a title holder to put his title on the line in a catchweight bout is completely unprecedented in the whole of boxing history; and (b) it was bull**** when it was done before, because the normal rules of boxing were changed for a single fight in order to help a single fighter, which diminished the integrity of the titles.

Understood.

Cool then, we agree.

Sorry Dave Redo but i was like Wecreep also. Initiall i misunderstood you but now you have cleared it out perfectly.

Good Post and I Totally agree.

I have been saying the same thing for days

[lcheezy]

basically cotto is caught up because manny does'nt have to fight cotto.if the weight changes then there won't be a fight. they really don't need each other.manny can go to 140 and do ok. cotto just can't take the punch from a big welterweight anymore.

[Iceta]

Pacquiao is really hurting his image with this catch weight garbage. Hell, I'm a JMM fan and I realize that if he beats Mayweather people may use weight drain as an excuse. If you want credit for victories, you don't try to handicap your opponents. The thing that makes Pacquiao look more shady for it is because he is already somewhat filled out at Welterweight. On the other hand JMM has fought 50 of his 55 fights at Featherweight. But it would be a more historical achievement if he beat Mayweather at 147 instead of 143 or 144.

Another thing that makes Floyd lose his clout in a match up like the one that he is in is that he is not a belt holder or champion anymore. Mosley and Cotto hold titles. Pacquiao needs to fight them at their best weight unless they are voluntarily going down like Mosley is willing to do. I don't think Cotto really wants to go down to 145 even though he agreed to it.

[theking0906]

So there u have it the fight is at 145 if cotto doesn't wanna put his title up he will vacate the title will then be on th line and if pac wins its his if cotto wins its still vacant cotto should just fight and attempt to keep his crown and stop complaining theres no getting out.