Duran is not a top ten ATG

[JAB5239]

name these 50 fighters please, and please list what they accomplsihed in their careers

oh and make sure it measures up to 5 titles in 5 weight classes by the age of 30 snd remained undefeated. it took duran how long to win 4

5 titles. titles. He never unified a division. Most of the guys (between 40 and 50) who may rank ahead of Floyd won their championships when there was 1 champion per and only 8 to 10 weight classes. Floyds accomplishments are watered down compared to other great fighter. ANYBODY not wearing the "sleep tight Mayweather blinders" can see this. That isn't hate, its an undisputable fact.

[JAB5239]

I could do just that, but you know what, it would only be lost on someone who thinks Ken Buchanan was in any way similar to Ricky Hatton, or that Duran was a punching bag for any boxer with decent skills.

Suffice to say, they all accomplished far more than Floyd's career of nothing by WBC titles in a four belt era, failure to clean out and unify a single division, and failure to meet many of his most talented and dangerous peers.

Guess I should have read on before posting, but............EXACTLY!!

[wpink1]

Brandish...

You are arguing a point that I have in a different way argued for years.

Lets point out the facts. Duran is regarded by many as the greatest fighter at the lightweight division to ever exist. Any thing that has happened negative in his career is disregared and not considered when you debate Duran fans.

Duran had a record of 69-1 at lightweight. Yet name one great lightweight that he beat. Now I will agree Dejesus and Buchananon where very good, but GREAT..NOT!! Also, what Duran peopel leave out is that he also lost to Dejesus the 1st time. To be fair Duran did dominant the 70's so there are some fighters at the lightweight division that may have been very good or great that never got there because Duran dominanted. True..but also why didnt Duran face Arguello, and Pryor? Finally, out of the 69 wins Duran had, (what Duran fans leave out) 30 or more of the fights where vs fighters who where nothing more than sparring partner level fighters. However, fighters like Sweat Pea, Sugar Ray Leonard, Mayweather, DLH from the time they reached their 15 fight, they fought better and better fighters, and almost everytime they got in the ring, it was vs top flight fighters. Duran had fights all through out is title reign at lightweight with fighters who had losing records, records with barely above .500 records, etc.

Duran fans leave out NOT SOME FACT BUT MOST FACTS...!! The say well we cant consider the FACTS that Duran had a horrible record vs great fighters. Hearns, Leonard, Hagler, Benetiz. Hmm the record is 1-5. The one win was when Ray willingly fought the wrong fight, and Duran barely won that fight. However he did win and was a lightweight who moved up and did this. So lets give him his credit for this win. However, he was 1-5 vs these fighters and he moved up, NOT WHEN HE WAS SHOT, OR AT AGE 34 OR OLDER... He moved up at age 28 and all these losses where before age 33.

Now how do we look at other fighters who have moved up such as DLH, Mosley, Whitacker, Leoanrd, Jones, Mayweather, etc... We look at ALL THEIR FIGHTS UP UNTIL IT IS CLEAR THAT THEY ARE SHOT, AND ROUGHLY THE AGE IS ABOUT AGE 34. Why do Duran fans simply say Duran's fights at welter should not count (except for his win vs leonard). Why do Duran fans simply try to downplay his loss to ray when he quit by saying that he was not ready, out of shape and had to lose a lot of weight in between the 1st and 2nd fights. Hmmmm what duran fans leave out is that DURAN DID THIS BETWEEN EVERY FIGHT....EVERY FIGHT, AND HE HAD TO LOSE WEIGHT TO REACH THE 135 POUND WEIGHT LIMIT BEFORE, THIS TIME 147.. Hmmmmm. Also Duran was within 5 pounds of 147 roungly 3 weeks before the fight, when he was at the Ali-holmes fight.

Brandish, Duran is a great fighter now doubt. He proved so by having a record of 69-1, and beating at close to prime SRL. However, to ignore the facts which Duran fans do is laughable. No matter what Duran ever did their is an excuse.

1. Weak resume..... excuse I have not heard a good one for this only they ignore this.
2. Losses to Hagler, leoanrd, hearns, Leonard. Excuse. Duran was a lightweight and was past his prime. Thus we cant count these fights. Hmmm Mayweather, moved up at age 28 and never did beat a leoanrd, but he has beaten more good fighters than Duran, and is undefeated. No there are no Haglers, Leoanrd, hearns, on Mayweathers resume but there is hattons, dlh, judah, etc, corrales, castillo's, etc.. And Duran LOST TO THESE FIGHTERS 90% OF THE TIME.
3. Duran quit vs Leonard. Excuse...Duran was not in shape etc, had cramps, diarreah...etc. BS...Duran was in the same shape as he was in the 1st fight, if he had won there would never have been any thing brought...hmmm just like you never heard of Duran eating bad when he won those 69 fights..Right? Duran was in good shape, he even cleared the air in his won biography when he stated he never said no mas, or anything like that. He said said "he is not fighting this clown anymore" in his native language. He was frustereated because leoanrd boxed his ears off this time, and he could not adapt.

[Brandish]

5 titles. titles. He never unified a division. Most of the guys (between 40 and 50) who may rank ahead of Floyd won their championships when there was 1 champion per and only 8 to 10 weight classes. Floyds accomplishments are watered down compared to other great fighter. ANYBODY not wearing the "sleep tight Mayweather blinders" can see this. That isn't hate, its an undisputable fact.

1st off floyd din't need to unify 130 he was recognized as the best fighter hands down and dominated with eight defenses over the cream of the crop at `130..there is no question floyd is ranked as the greatest ever at 130.

you say floyd's accomplishments are watered down. why was duran 15-7 in championship fights while floyd is 18-0 any fool can see who is being overrated and who is not.

how many times did duran defend his 147 title, 154, 0r even 160 titles that he won.

for a guy with over 100 fights to have only 12 title defenses (same as floyd who has 39 fights) says alot about durans comp. duran never defended any title he won outside of 135 can you say the same about floyd

lets get one thing straight here floyd accomplsihed what duran could not, he won his five titles while remaining undefeated and he had more success in championship fights no way is duran top ten and his accomplishments don't measure up to these two statistics

[Steak]

you say floyd's accomplishments are watered down. why was duran 15-7 in championship fights while floyd is 18-0 any fool can see who is being overrated and who is not.

those loses in title fights came from Sugar Ray Leonard, Wilfred Benitez, Tommy Hearns, and Marvin Hagler. Mayweather has never faced a fighter of their level, adn thats the truth. the only other title fight loss I know of is the Williams Joppy one, and Duran was well into his 46 or 47 and at Middleweight. please, let me know how well Mayweather would do at that age and at middleweight.

[Brandish]

Brandish...

You are arguing a point that I have in a different way argued for years.

Lets point out the facts. Duran is regarded by many as the greatest fighter at the lightweight division to ever exist. Any thing that has happened negative in his career is disregared and not considered when you debate Duran fans.

they can't look at the guys career objectively. no other fighter gets this kind of treatment. I don't remeber duran being a force in boxing in the 80's or 90's I always remeber him getting beat or winning a title but never defending it for any length of time

Duran had a record of 69-1 at lightweight. Yet name one great lightweight that he beat. Now I will agree Dejesus and Buchananon where very good, but GREAT..NOT!! Also, what Duran peopel leave out is that he also lost to Dejesus the 1st time. To be fair Duran did dominant the 70's so there are some fighters at the lightweight division that may have been very good or great that never got there because Duran dominanted. True..but also why didnt Duran face Arguello, and Pryor? Finally, out of the 69 wins Duran had, (what Duran fans leave out) 30 or more of the fights where vs fighters who where nothing more than sparring partner level fighters. However, fighters like Sweat Pea, Sugar Ray Leonard, Mayweather, DLH from the time they reached their 15 fight, they fought better and better fighters, and almost everytime they got in the ring, it was vs top flight fighters. Duran had fights all through out is title reign at lightweight with fighters who had losing records, records with barely above .500 records, etc.

you can tell he had poor comp at lightweight I mean the guy had over 100 fights but was 15-7 in championship fights that tells me he did not do well outside of 135. and to say he is top ten all time based on weak comp at 135 no way. I would give him top 30 but tthat is it

Duran fans leave out NOT SOME FACT BUT MOST FACTS...!! The say well we cant consider the FACTS that Duran had a horrible record vs great fighters. Hearns, Leonard, Hagler, Benetiz. Hmm the record is 1-5. The one win was when Ray willingly fought the wrong fight, and Duran barely won that fight. However he did win and was a lightweight who moved up and did this. So lets give him his credit for this win. However, he was 1-5 vs these fighters and he moved up, NOT WHEN HE WAS SHOT, OR AT AGE 34 OR OLDER... He moved up at age 28 and all these losses where before age 33.

they love to say duran jumped from lightweight to 147 to face leoanrd..which is a lie..duran was at 147 for two years before he fought leonard.

Now how do we look at other fighters who have moved up such as DLH, Mosley, Whitacker, Leoanrd, Jones, Mayweather, etc... We look at ALL THEIR FIGHTS UP UNTIL IT IS CLEAR THAT THEY ARE SHOT, AND ROUGHLY THE AGE IS ABOUT AGE 34. Why do Duran fans simply say Duran's fights at welter should not count (except for his win vs leonard). Why do Duran fans simply try to downplay his loss to ray when he quit by saying that he was not ready, out of shape and had to lose a lot of weight in between the 1st and 2nd fights. Hmmmm what duran fans leave out is that DURAN DID THIS BETWEEN EVERY FIGHT....EVERY FIGHT, AND HE HAD TO LOSE WEIGHT TO REACH THE 135 POUND WEIGHT LIMIT BEFORE, THIS TIME 147.. Hmmmmm. Also Duran was within 5 pounds of 147 roungly 3 weeks before the fight, when he was at the Ali-holmes fight

in their eyes there is an excuse for every duran loss, never once do they hold their fav accountable hence the reason he is not a true top ten atg

Brandish, Duran is a great fighter now doubt. He proved so by having a record of 69-1, and beating at close to prime SRL. However, to ignore the facts which Duran fans do is laughable. No matter what Duran ever did their is an excuse.

1. Weak resume..... excuse I have not heard a good one for this only they ignore this.
2. Losses to Hagler, leoanrd, hearns, Leonard. Excuse. Duran was a lightweight and was past his prime. Thus we cant count these fights. Hmmm Mayweather, moved up at age 28 and never did beat a leoanrd, but he has beaten more good fighters than Duran, and is undefeated. No there are no Haglers, Leoanrd, hearns, on Mayweathers resume but there is hattons, dlh, judah, etc, corrales, castillo's, etc.. And Duran LOST TO THESE FIGHTERS 90% OF THE TIME.
3. Duran quit vs Leonard. Excuse...Duran was not in shape etc, had cramps, diarreah...etc. BS...Duran was in the same shape as he was in the 1st fight, if he had won there would never have been any thing brought...hmmm just like you never heard of Duran eating bad when he won those 69 fights..Right? Duran was in good shape, he even cleared the air in his won biography when he stated he never said no mas, or anything like that. He said said "he is not fighting this clown anymore" in his native language. He was frustereated because leoanrd boxed his ears off this time, and he could not adapt.

yeah i give duran a top 30 ranking based on winning 4 titles in 4 weight classes but in terms of rink skill he was no tommy hearns or ray leoanrd..he was a notch below those fighters. grat analysis by the way.

[Brandish]

those loses in title fights came from Sugar Ray Leonard, Wilfred Benitez, Tommy Hearns, and Marvin Hagler.

here we go again with the excuses. let me ask you this why do you think duran lost all of his big fights?

Mayweather has never faced a fighter of their level, adn thats the truth.

sugar ray robinson never faced, hagler, hearns, and leoanrd are you saying his accomplishments in his era don't stand up to any of those fighters. floyd's accomplsihments stand alone he doesn't need to beat duran's comp to be conisdered great,same goes for ray robinson, and henry armstrong just because they didn't fight in duran's era doesn't diminsih their comp in the slightest.

duran fought during his era so you as a fan have to stand up and accept the losses

the only other title fight loss I know of is the Williams Joppy one, and Duran was well into his 46 or 47 and at Middleweight. please, let me know how well Mayweather would do at that age and at middleweight.

duran didn't do **** at 160 he was fighting at that weight since 1983 and he nver became the real champ of that division when hagler, herans and leoanrd were around. he got a gift against barkley that's it. no title defenses nothing just win a title at the fourth weight class against a b-level fighter and get proclaimed top ten atg.

do you honestly think duran is a top ten atg?

[Steak]

here we go again with the excuses. let me ask you this why do you think duran lost all of his big fights?

look. do you really think that Mayweather would have beaten Hearns, Hagler, Leonard, or Benitez?

sugar ray robinson never faced, hagler, hearns, and leoanrd are you saying his accomplishments in his era don't stand up to any of those fighters. floyd's accomplsihments stand alone he doesn't need to beat duran's comp to be conisdered great,same goes for ray robinson, and henry armstrong just because they didn't fight in duran's era doesn't diminsih their comp in the slightest.

Robinson fought guys like Graziano, Turpin, Maxim, Fullmer, LaMotta, Gavilan, Zivic etc. many of them he fought past his prime and past his best weight. you cant question his competition, and he ended up with loses against some of his best competition too.
Same with Armstrong.

duran didn't do **** at 160 he was fighting at that weight since 1983 and he nver became the real champ of that division when hagler, herans and leoanrd were around. he got a gift against barkley that's it. no title defenses nothing just win a title at the fourth weight class against a b-level fighter and get proclaimed top ten atg.

do you honestly think duran is a top ten atg?

he was near 40 and 25lbs past his best weight. I think anything hes able to accomplish at that point is really just extra credit at that point.

[Bushbaby]

People,Durans greatest weight was at lightweight!!He only went up in weight cause he had cleaned house at light w.and for those who dont know,he said no mas because Sugar Ray was doin more running than fighting and Duran got tired of chasing him!Again, at least Duran had the heart to engage all those fighters that were mentioned and above his true weight to boot!!

[Brandish]

look. do you really think that Mayweather would have beaten Hearns, Hagler, Leonard, or Benitez?

you just lost the argument..I asked you why do you think duran lost all of his big fights and you bring up another fighter. stay on topic and answer the question.

Robinson fought guys like Graziano, Turpin, Maxim, Fullmer, LaMotta, Gavilan, Zivic etc. many of them he fought past his prime and past his best weight. you cant question his competition, and he ended up with loses against some of his best competition too.
Same with Armstrong.

so you admit fighters can only fight the best of their era, floyd can't fight robinsons comp or duran's comp all he can do is shine against the best of his era which he has done and remained undefeated.

he was near 40 and 25lbs past his best weight. I think anything hes able to accomplish at that point is really just extra credit at that point.

you didn't answer the question do you think duran is a top ten atg