Tszyu vs De La Hoya & others, how come it didn't happen?

[Dirk Diggler UK]

It also helped where Kostya was at in his career when Ricky fought him and the circumstances. It's like what Frank Warren said: We got Kostya at the right time and in Ricky's back-yard.


Tszyu not moving up to 147 to challenge Oscar and Shane, to me, shows he knew he couldn't beat them.

Both Shane and Oscar are above Hatton as well.

They were all the glorified amateur Champions and they knew each other. At pro, it's a different story and Shane and Oscar became the better fighters while Tszyu seemingly didn't meet his potential. I often blame the Australians to mess around…but in the end, it was Tszyu’s choice where to move and train. Or maybe he did reach his potential and I'm overrating what should have been.

I think thats unfair to Hatton considering what Tszyu did to Mitchell 6 months earlier. Let me tell you, Tszyu doesnt quit on his stool against any other fighter that night. Hatton was a man possesed, he made age a factor with the way he fought.

Mosley skipped the entire division. How you can blame Kostya for that illl never know. Mayweather wanted the $$$ with Gatti too. Its easy to say "move to 147" but would he be accomodated? I doubt it.

[Benny Leonard]

I think thats unfair to Hatton considering what Tszyu did to Mitchell 6 months earlier. Let me tell you, Tszyu doesnt quit on his stool against any other fighter that night. Hatton was a man possesed, he made age a factor with the way he fought.

Mosley skipped the entire division. How you can blame Kostya for that illl never know. Mayweather wanted the $$$ with Gatti too. Its easy to say "move to 147" but would he be accomodated? I doubt it.

Mosley skipped the division for two reasons: One, he said 5 pounds wasn't enough because he was killing himself to make lightweight and he was sick of it...so he jumped to a "healthier" weight. Two: O$car.
Like I said, they were all there and the division was hot. They would have welcomed Kostya Tszyu into the mix had he moved up. They all knew him and respected him.

It's hard to say Shane and Oscar feared Tszyu when Oscar fought incredible fighters that were bigger and stronger than Tszyu...and so did Shane.

Oscar was in talks with Tszyu to fight him but Tszyu failed to come through; he lost to Phillips.

Leading up to the Hatton vs. Tszyu fight:

What was great about Hatton was that everything I was saying he repeated for me in interviews to back me up when I posted my thoughts; it was like he was reading my mind; I owe him one.

I pointed to what everybody had been saying for years: Tszyu was on the decline. So it wasn't like I was brilliant; I was simply pointing out what others were saying and backing it up with my own view to make it clear.

Zab Judah even had a conversation before the fight about how Tszyu was no longer the fighter he once was. Kostya was talking about how he was looking over his amateur/old fights and was going to bring back some of what he was doing back then...but Zab replied that Kostya was too old to bring that back and hadn't fought like that in a long time...so it was unlikely.

Of course, it didn't matter because Kostya still had two things: Timing and Power...enough to knock out Zab.

Anyway, Hatton pointed to a number of things: He {Ricky} was younger than Tszyu who was 35...had been more active than Tszyu, who had only fought 9 rounds in three years...and hadn't been in a real tough fight in a while.

Only a small amount of people wondered if he could still make the weight when he comes back. He did make it for the Mitchell rematch but somebody did point out he looked ill for the weigh-in. Not sure who, but I'm sure whoever it was will let me know with their bragging ways {kidding}. Anyway, there were rumors he having a hard time making weight when he was over in England...and it showed when he failed to make weight the first time; that was really the first time I ever heard Tszyu failed to make weight. It wasn't much, but it was telling.
He also listened to his advisors about body clock management instead of just going to England earlier and figuring it out. He miscalculated which is his fault as well.

Remember: 35 years of age; 9 rounds in 3 years; Mitchell fight, like Hatton said, only showed us that Tszyu has his power, but we don't know how good his stamina is because it was such a short fight; Two Serious Shoulder injuries that required surgery...which shows he was breaking down.

Like I said, people were saying he was past his prime a while back. He didn't look that great against Urkal which may have been the first fight I heard people talking about the possible decline of Tszyu.

I thought he looked good against Tackie, but not sure that says too much since others have as well.

And Leija; not such a great performance despite the TKO win. That was really the fight I thought that he wasn't quite there anymore. People still tell me it was before that, but I don't know.

[Wiley Hyena]

Mosley skipped the division for two reasons: One, he said 5 pounds wasn't enough because he was killing himself to make lightweight and he was sick of it...so he jumped to a "healthier" weight. Two: O$car.
Like I said, they were all there and the division was hot. They would have welcomed Kostya Tszyu into the mix had he moved up. They all knew him and respected him.

It's hard to say Shane and Oscar feared Tszyu when Oscar fought incredible fighters that were bigger and stronger than Tszyu...and so did Shane.

Oscar was in talks with Tszyu to fight him but Tszyu failed to come through; he lost to Phillips.

Leading up to the Hatton vs. Tszyu fight:

What was great about Hatton was that everything I was saying he repeated for me in interviews to back me up when I posted my thoughts; it was like he was reading my mind; I owe him one.

I pointed to what everybody had been saying for years: Tszyu was on the decline. So it wasn't like I was brilliant; I was simply pointing out what others were saying and backing it up with my own view to make it clear.

Zab Judah even had a conversation before the fight about how Tszyu was no longer the fighter he once was. Kostya was talking about how he was looking over his amateur/old fights and was going to bring back some of what he was doing back then...but Zab replied that Kostya was too old to bring that back and hadn't fought like that in a long time...so it was unlikely.

Of course, it didn't matter because Kostya still had two things: Timing and Power...enough to knock out Zab.

Anyway, Hatton pointed to a number of things: He {Ricky} was younger than Tszyu who was 35...had been more active than Tszyu, who had only fought 9 rounds in three years...and hadn't been in a real tough fight in a while.

Only a small amount of people wondered if he could still make the weight when he comes back. He did make it for the Mitchell rematch but somebody did point out he looked ill for the weigh-in. Not sure who, but I'm sure whoever it was will let me know with their bragging ways {kidding}. Anyway, there were rumors he having a hard time making weight when he was over in England...and it showed when he failed to make weight the first time; that was really the first time I ever heard Tszyu failed to make weight. It wasn't much, but it was telling.
He also listened to his advisors about body clock management instead of just going to England earlier and figuring it out. He miscalculated which is his fault as well.

Remember: 35 years of age; 9 rounds in 3 years; Mitchell fight, like Hatton said, only showed us that Tszyu has his power, but we don't know how good his stamina is because it was such a short fight; Two Serious Shoulder injuries that required surgery...which shows he was breaking down.

Like I said, people were saying he was past his prime a while back. He didn't look that great against Urkal which may have been the first fight I heard people talking about the possible decline of Tszyu.

I thought he looked good against Tackie, but not sure that says too much since others have as well.

And Leija; not such a great performance despite the TKO win. That was really the fight I thought that he wasn't quite there anymore. People still tell me it was before that, but I don't know.

I like the post. The Hatton loss was a product of two things: Tszyu's age and, don't forget, that British referree. Normally complaints about the ref are just sour g****s, but this case is different. There was home cooking in that fight. Hatton got away with everything; he could have pulled a knife and gotten away with it. Ricky fought like a man possessed, but he also had help.

But, if this discussion is about Tszyu's greatness, then the Hatton fight is almost totally irrelevant. In his prime, Tszyu was truly great. He was a master boxer, very powerful, and the KO power in that laser right hand was legendary. All the greats have lost fights, even the all acclaimed Sugar Ray Robinson. The test of a champion is how he comes back from a setback. Tszyu came back from his only prime loss against Phillips and unified the title (JrWW) for the first time in 30 years. IMO he lived up to his potential. For 10 years, Tszyu dominated his division. A number of American elites skipped Tszyu, including DeLaHoya, Mosely, and Mayweather. That's a testament to just how dangerous he was considered to be. And, don't be deluded about Mayweather. He dodged a Tszyu offer before signing to fight Gatti. That was years before the Hatton fiasco. Don't be deluded about DeLaHoya either. He left the JrWW division and never came back. And, Sugar Shane Mosely famously skipped the division entirely while Tszyu was in his reign. In the end, to answer the thread starter's question, the business of boxing said Tszyu was too dangerous to risk superstar status on, so he was to be avoided if at all possible. Had he come to be based in America, instead of Australia, perhaps the big money may have determined matters otherwise. I don't know. We can give big props to Zab Judah though. He proved he'll fight anybody. Had he beaten Tszyu, his then emerging superstar status would have been instantly aflame and we can assume his career may have taken a different course. There's a business decision we can respect.

[BennyST]

A Tszyu-DLH fight was very close to happening before Tszyu lost to Phillips, once he lost to Phillips, the talks died down and never really resurfaced.

Yeah, it was very close to happening, or at least there were a lot of talks going on at that point. Tszyu was seen as a massively huge prospect and the fight was looking to be quite large, but of course Tszyu ******ly lost to Phillips which killed the whole possibility of it happening.

I don't think he ever regained the respect he had, or the excitement, afterward and so Oscar never had to fight him. By the time Tszyu had become big enough for it to happen again Oscar was up around middleweight whereas Tszyu was having the big fights with Judah etc.

Would have been an exciting fight when Oscar was at 140. They fought common opponents and Tszyu looked much better beating them, which does not say anything for a fight they might have had, but it goes to show it would have been a very exciting fight. Pity Mosley skipped it as well. As many have already said, it was basically too much risk for the reward. A very large possibility of losing without the respect of losing to someone who was much larger (ie. Hopkins/Oscar or Wright/Mosley).

It was a pity that he stopped training like he had been as he was so highly regarded before the loss that he would have been able to get those guys quite easily. Mosley and Oscar would have been fantastic fights.

Anyway, he fought everyone there was to fight and had some huge fights apart from those two really. Very underrated, great fighter.

Edit: I just saw your post Benny L. One thing I always regretted was Tszyu coming to Australia. Had he stayed with his Russian coaches he would have been the fighter he could and should have been. The Australian coaches are great motivators and great fitness, conditioning coaches. They are not good boxing trainers and it showed with Tszyu's slow decline of his freakish boxing skill, which, if he had taken into the pro's with him throughout his whole career I honestly there wasn't a fighter who could have beaten him at the time in and around his division. It was a pity that they had him concentrating on power and strength, and not his speed, defense and boxing. He didn't live up to the potential he had because he was a much better fighter in the am's and had a pro style.

I always feel regret at what could have been. An immense talent that became great but could have easily become ATG. He needed a different coach and it showed with his first loss. Actually, it showed up very quickly in the pro's that he wasn't concentrating on what made him so brilliant. He was made to focus on power and KO's instead of boxing without looking for the KO, which would have come naturally with his power. He was not a power puncher in the amateurs at all. He was pure boxer that used his incredible speed and movement to win his fights.

People think of him as a one dimensional power fighter, but he was one of the greatest boxers I've ever seen in the amateurs and most that saw him in the amateurs would agree. He quite literally had everything you could want. Great speed, defense, footwork, combination's and power. He also had a brilliant boxing mind. It was a pity as the combination of him and Lewis was not a great one.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

I like the post. The Hatton loss was a product of two things: Tszyu's age and, don't forget, that British referree. Normally complaints about the ref are just sour g****s, but this case is different. There was home cooking in that fight. Hatton got away with everything; he could have pulled a knife and gotten away with it. Ricky fought like a man possessed, but he also had help.

How exactly?

Tszyu hit Hatton twice below the belt with no punishment before Hatton gave him one back.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Mosley skipped the division for two reasons: One, he said 5 pounds wasn't enough because he was killing himself to make lightweight and he was sick of it...so he jumped to a "healthier" weight. Two: O$car.
Like I said, they were all there and the division was hot. They would have welcomed Kostya Tszyu into the mix had he moved up. They all knew him and respected him.

It's hard to say Shane and Oscar feared Tszyu when Oscar fought incredible fighters that were bigger and stronger than Tszyu...and so did Shane.

Oscar was in talks with Tszyu to fight him but Tszyu failed to come through; he lost to Phillips.

Leading up to the Hatton vs. Tszyu fight:

What was great about Hatton was that everything I was saying he repeated for me in interviews to back me up when I posted my thoughts; it was like he was reading my mind; I owe him one.

I pointed to what everybody had been saying for years: Tszyu was on the decline. So it wasn't like I was brilliant; I was simply pointing out what others were saying and backing it up with my own view to make it clear.

Zab Judah even had a conversation before the fight about how Tszyu was no longer the fighter he once was. Kostya was talking about how he was looking over his amateur/old fights and was going to bring back some of what he was doing back then...but Zab replied that Kostya was too old to bring that back and hadn't fought like that in a long time...so it was unlikely.

Of course, it didn't matter because Kostya still had two things: Timing and Power...enough to knock out Zab.

Anyway, Hatton pointed to a number of things: He {Ricky} was younger than Tszyu who was 35...had been more active than Tszyu, who had only fought 9 rounds in three years...and hadn't been in a real tough fight in a while.

Only a small amount of people wondered if he could still make the weight when he comes back. He did make it for the Mitchell rematch but somebody did point out he looked ill for the weigh-in. Not sure who, but I'm sure whoever it was will let me know with their bragging ways {kidding}. Anyway, there were rumors he having a hard time making weight when he was over in England...and it showed when he failed to make weight the first time; that was really the first time I ever heard Tszyu failed to make weight. It wasn't much, but it was telling.
He also listened to his advisors about body clock management instead of just going to England earlier and figuring it out. He miscalculated which is his fault as well.

Remember: 35 years of age; 9 rounds in 3 years; Mitchell fight, like Hatton said, only showed us that Tszyu has his power, but we don't know how good his stamina is because it was such a short fight; Two Serious Shoulder injuries that required surgery...which shows he was breaking down.

Like I said, people were saying he was past his prime a while back. He didn't look that great against Urkal which may have been the first fight I heard people talking about the possible decline of Tszyu.

I thought he looked good against Tackie, but not sure that says too much since others have as well.

And Leija; not such a great performance despite the TKO win. That was really the fight I thought that he wasn't quite there anymore. People still tell me it was before that, but I don't know.

So its ok for Mosley to skip the entire division but cos Kostya didnt move up, it means he didnt want the fights? Come on....

I wouldnt say they were afraid, just unwilling to take the risk.

And please, you've just about listed every excuse in the book. Im guessing you predicted Hatton would make him quit? lol

Hatton was given as much chance as Gary Lockett. Was age and inactivity a factor? Yeah sure........cos Hatton made it a factor.

[Silencers]

Yeah, it was very close to happening, or at least there were a lot of talks going on at that point. Tszyu was seen as a massively huge prospect and the fight was looking to be quite large, but of course Tszyu ******ly lost to Phillips which killed the whole possibility of it happening.

I don't think he ever regained the respect he had, or the excitement, afterward and so Oscar never had to fight him. By the time Tszyu had become big enough for it to happen again Oscar was up around middleweight whereas Tszyu was having the big fights with Judah etc.

Would have been an exciting fight when Oscar was at 140. They fought common opponents and Tszyu looked much better beating them, which does not say anything for a fight they might have had, but it goes to show it would have been a very exciting fight. Pity Mosley skipped it as well. As many have already said, it was basically too much risk for the reward. A very large possibility of losing without the respect of losing to someone who was much larger (ie. Hopkins/Oscar or Wright/Mosley).

It was a pity that he stopped training like he had been as he was so highly regarded before the loss that he would have been able to get those guys quite easily. Mosley and Oscar would have been fantastic fights.

Anyway, he fought everyone there was to fight and had some huge fights apart from those two really. Very underrated, great fighter.

I agree, if Tszyu hadn't gotten ****y and took Phillips seriously, he quite possibly could have fought DLH and it would have been a very competitive fight, he would also possibly be remembered even better than he is now but anyways, that never happened.

Mosley made a smart decision to skip 140 and Tszyu, DLH was where the money was and to this day, he's still praised for that performance, so definitely a smart move from Mosley.

[BennyST]

I agree, if Tszyu hadn't gotten ****y and took Phillips seriously, he quite possibly could have fought DLH and it would have been a very competitive fight, he would also possibly be remembered even better than he is now but anyways, that never happened.

Mosley made a smart decision to skip 140 and Tszyu, DLH was where the money was and to this day, he's still praised for that performance, so definitely a smart move from Mosley.

Absolutely a smart move on his part. If he had decided to fight Tszyu and lost the very same thing would have happened to him that happened to Tszyu. As it was he became a legend because of those fights and even with the other losses had still been able to hold his career afloat because of them.

[Wiley Hyena]

How exactly?

Tszyu hit Hatton twice below the belt with no punishment before Hatton gave him one back.

Watch the fight again and count the warnings given to Ricky. Low blows (plural), hitting in the back of the head, head butting.......and not a warning issued. I'll not mention the holding and hitting because that's something that all fighters will do if they can get away with it. Hatton was rabid and he was allowed to run wild.

Don't get me wrong. I like Hatton. But, that was a dirty fight.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Watch the fight again and count the warnings given to Ricky. Low blows (plural), hitting in the back of the head, head butting.......and not a warning issued. I'll not mention the holding and hitting because that's something that all fighters will do if they can get away with it. Hatton was rabid and he was allowed to run wild.

Don't get me wrong. I like Hatton. But, that was a dirty fight.

I can almost gurantee ive seen that fight more times than you. So perhaps you should watch again.

Low blows isnt even a point of contention. Tszyu did it twice, Hatton once in retaliation.

Holding was mutual throughout the fight. Tszyu initiated most of it in the later rounds as he tired. Dirty fight.....yeh maybe but both guys were giving as good as they got.