Tszyu vs De La Hoya & others, how come it didn't happen?

[KostyaTszyu44]

Tito was faster than Kostya easily

kostya wasnt a blinding flurrier with his punches, but he had deceptive speed, and marvellous accuracy/timing

he also had the unique ability to change the angle he was throwing a punch at at the last moment , if his opponent had moved their head or whatever.....

watch the judah fight if you want to see a perfect example of how to cut off the ring and use timing and the placement of a punch to destroy a faster fighter

[Dirk Diggler UK]

kostya wasnt a blinding flurrier with his punches, but he had deceptive speed, and marvellous accuracy/timing

he also had the unique ability to change the angle he was throwing a punch at at the last moment , if his opponent had moved their head or whatever.....

watch the judah fight if you want to see a perfect example of how to cut off the ring and use timing and the placement of a punch to destroy a faster fighter

I wouldnt waste your time, hes probably never seen him fight.

[Wiley Hyena]

kostya wasnt a blinding flurrier with his punches, but he had deceptive speed, and marvellous accuracy/timing

he also had the unique ability to change the angle he was throwing a punch at at the last moment , if his opponent had moved their head or whatever.....

watch the judah fight if you want to see a perfect example of how to cut off the ring and use timing and the placement of a punch to destroy a faster fighter

The much overused quote nowadays is that "Tszyu didn't like pressure fighters." He only lost 2 fights, both to attacking styles, so I guess it could be true. But, what is true is that Tszyu specialized in blowing up the speedy slicksters. His timing was magnificent. He was excellent in dealing with the Mosely-Mayweather-Judah types. For this reason, IMO, a bout with a prime DeLaHoya would have been the most intriguing fight of them all. A real chess match with power to back it up.

[Poet682006]

The much overused quote nowadays is that "Tszyu didn't like pressure fighters." He only lost 2 fights, both to attacking styles, so I guess it could be true. But, what is true is that Tszyu specialized in blowing up the speedy slicksters. His timing was magnificent. He was excellent in dealing with the Mosely-Mayweather-Judah types. For this reason, IMO, a bout with a prime DeLaHoya would have been the most intriguing fight of them all. A real chess match with power to back it up.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the Hatton fight: Kostya was pretty much done by that point so it really isn't valid evidence. Phillips was more of a boxer-puncher than an attacking or pressure fighter and if you rewatch that fight it was Vince's counter rights that did Tszyu in. Make them miss then make them pay. You're still going to get a lot of "true believers" that will maintain that the Judah fight was a fluke. That's BS and when they point to how Judah looked in the first round I simply point out that Kostya was always a bit of a slow starter and took a round or two to warm up ala Joe Frazier who, as Don Dunphy would say in every Frazier fight he called "Joe always loses the first round".

Poet

[Wiley Hyena]

I wouldn't put too much stock in the Hatton fight: Kostya was pretty much done by that point so it really isn't valid evidence. Phillips was more of a boxer-puncher than an attacking or pressure fighter and if you rewatch that fight it was Vince's counter rights that did Tszyu in. Make them miss then make them pay. You're still going to get a lot of "true believers" that will maintain that the Judah fight was a fluke. That's BS and when they point to how Judah looked in the first round I simply point out that Kostya was always a bit of a slow starter and took a round or two to warm up ala Joe Frazier who, as Don Dunphy would say in every Frazier fight he called "Joe always loses the first round".

Poet

Agreed. Good post. In fact, I put no stock in the Hatton fight for all the reasons stated in this thread. There really isn't much evidence to support the contention that Tszyu didn't like "pressure" fighters. But, there is plenty of evidence to support the contention that he loved the speedy slicksters.

[Poet682006]

But, there is plenty of evidence to support the contention that he loved the speedy slicksters.

Sure! Most of the slick fighters he faced didn't have enough pop to back him up and if you couldn't hurt Tszyu you were in for a world of hurt: He was going to come after you all night long until went to sleep.

Poet

[Benny Leonard]

So its ok for Mosley to skip the entire division but cos Kostya didnt move up, it means he didnt want the fights? Come on....

I wouldnt say they were afraid, just unwilling to take the risk.

And please, you've just about listed every excuse in the book. Im guessing you predicted Hatton would make him quit? lol

Hatton was given as much chance as Gary Lockett. Was age and inactivity a factor? Yeah sure........cos Hatton made it a factor.

Ah, yeah when your risking your health. Shane said he couldn't make the weight anymore and 5 pounds up wasn't going to cut it...so he decided to take the chance and move up to 147 where Oscar was.

"Weren't Willing to take a Riks?":

LOL...How is Oscar the type not to take risks? Oscar fought bigger, stronger, faster, better boxers than Kostya Tszyu? Oscar faced a prime Tito at 147. Shane fought a prime Oscar and a prime Vernon Forrest at 147. Shane would also continue to move up and fight a fighter people avoided; Winky Wright. Oscar would move all the way up to Middleweight to face Bernard Hopkins. And you are telling me they weren't willing to take the risk on Kostya Tszyu, a 140 pound fighter that got KTFO by Phillips? WOW.

All Tszyu had to do is move up one division, just like they did...but guess what, he didn't. Why? because there was no threat at 140.

Where was the Money...Where was the Legacy at that time? It was at 147.

Oscar wanted to fight Tszyu but it was Tszyu who blew it by losing to Vince Phillips.

And who would you go after if you were Shane?: Oscar, who brings MONEY, FANS, and LEGACY or Kostya Tszyu who lost to Phillips and isn't quite that known in America?

And for Hatton, they are not "excuses" if they are the "reasons" Ricky also gave on why he had a chance. Ricky was one of the people that said Tszyu's age and inactivity would work against him. Even the British commentator mentioned the inactivity and age: 9 rounds and 3 years.

You know who picked Ricky: Sugar Ray Leonard and Emanuel Steward. Forget the rest right now. They weren't buying into Tszyu at that point.

I agreed with Ricky when he said the Mitchell fight wasn't enough to show if Kostya had the stamina to go distance anymore; the fight was short.

And No, I didn't predict Hatton would stop Tszyu, but I did think he could possibly wear him down and make it a tough fight because of the reasons. if he could make it out of the early rounds. I thought it was a 60/40 fight in favor of Tszyu.

I wasn't a fool that gets caught up in the hype because he blew away a faded Mitchel who not only looked scared to fight, he was scared...so Tyson and Steward said later after they saw him in the locker-room.

These aren't excuses: 35 years of age; was called past his prime for years; had only fought 9 rounds in 3 years; had two serious shoulder injuries that required surgery...in fact, I think he even tore his ACL in training which was another inactive spell.

Did Hatton make it a factor? Of course he did. Any good fighter would have. Mitchell couldn't do it. If Tszyu had fought Shane, Oscar, etc. he would have been defeated as well.

Going back to Tszyu not moving up:
I wanted Kostya to move up. There were big names at 147 as well as big money. If he had fought them and won, he would become a big name in America. But he chose not to.

There was even talks about Kostya moving up to face Oscar after Ricky Hatton...but once again, he blew his chance by losing.

[wmute]

I like the post. The Hatton loss was a product of two things: Tszyu's age and, don't forget, that British referree. Normally complaints about the ref are just sour g****s, but this case is different. There was home cooking in that fight. Hatton got away with everything; he could have pulled a knife and gotten away with it. Ricky fought like a man possessed, but he also had help.

But, if this discussion is about Tszyu's greatness, then the Hatton fight is almost totally irrelevant. In his prime, Tszyu was truly great. He was a master boxer, very powerful, and the KO power in that laser right hand was legendary. All the greats have lost fights, even the all acclaimed Sugar Ray Robinson. The test of a champion is how he comes back from a setback. Tszyu came back from his only prime loss against Phillips and unified the title (JrWW) for the first time in 30 years. IMO he lived up to his potential. For 10 years, Tszyu dominated his division. A number of American elites skipped Tszyu, including DeLaHoya, Mosely, and Mayweather. That's a testament to just how dangerous he was considered to be. And, don't be deluded about Mayweather. He dodged a Tszyu offer before signing to fight Gatti. That was years before the Hatton fiasco. Don't be deluded about DeLaHoya either. He left the JrWW division and never came back. And, Sugar Shane Mosely famously skipped the division entirely while Tszyu was in his reign. In the end, to answer the thread starter's question, the business of boxing said Tszyu was too dangerous to risk superstar status on, so he was to be avoided if at all possible. Had he come to be based in America, instead of Australia, perhaps the big money may have determined matters otherwise. I don't know. We can give big props to Zab Judah though. He proved he'll fight anybody. Had he beaten Tszyu, his then emerging superstar status would have been instantly aflame and we can assume his career may have taken a different course. There's a business decision we can respect.

Proof please

[wmute]

The much overused quote nowadays is that "Tszyu didn't like pressure fighters." He only lost 2 fights, both to attacking styles, so I guess it could be true. But, what is true is that Tszyu specialized in blowing up the speedy slicksters. His timing was magnificent. He was excellent in dealing with the Mosely-Mayweather-Judah types. For this reason, IMO, a bout with a prime DeLaHoya would have been the most intriguing fight of them all. A real chess match with power to back it up.

How do Mayweather or Mosley fight like Judah? Or how do they fight like each other? Because they are fast? Mosley fights more aggressive than Judah. Mayweather fights more defensive. Just cos they are black they dont fight the same AT ALL.

[Pullcounter]

How do Mayweather or Mosley fight like Judah? Or how do they fight like each other? Because they are fast? Mosley fights more aggressive than Judah. Mayweather fights more defensive. Just cos they are black they dont fight the same AT ALL.

i think he's trying to say pbf, judah, and mosely all rely on speed. tszyu relies on timing.

but he should qualify it better.. pbf relies on defense, speed, and timing. judah relies on speed and punching power. mosley relies on speed and strength. tszyu relies on timing and power punching.