Is Oscar De La Hoya an all-time great?

[Mr. Fantastic]

Hopkins cleaned out the division and then defend the belt 20 times and 6 of those undisputed title defenses. He did something DLH has never and will never do and that's beat everyone with a claim to being the best at that weight class. DLH has always been the 2nd or 3rd best in every division he's fought in, how can a fighter be an ATG when he can't even lay claim to being the legit division champ? Floyd held the 'BC but at least he beat the 2nd best guy. Has DLH ever beaten the best or (if you place him at the top) the 2nd best in any division he's been in?

Still avoiding my question it seems. How many times do I have to repeat myself. Don't you think its unfair that I answer your questions but you don't answer mine??

It could of been the same for DLH if he would of decided to stay in one division his whole career. And DLH has done something Hopkins didn't do(10x champ, 6 Divisions), like I said, it goes both ways bro. DLH has been at the top in several divisions, so I don't know where you're getting at being 2nd or 3rd. He was also in the top 5 P4P throughout his prime. 2nd best guy in Baldy or Judah?? lol Margarito was ranked 1st or 2nd if I do recall correctly during that time.

[lparm]

Still avoiding my question it seems. How many times do I have to repeat myself. Don't you think its unfair that I answer your questions but you don't answer mine??

It could of been the same for DLH if he would of decided to stay in one division his whole career. And DLH has done something Hopkins didn't do(10x champ, 6 Divisions), like I said, it goes both ways bro. DLH has been at the top in several divisions, so I don't know where you're getting at being 2nd or 3rd. He was also in the top 5 P4P throughout his prime. 2nd best guy in Baldy or Judah?? lol Margarito was ranked 1st or 2nd if I do recall correctly during that time.

How many fighters did Hop beat that beat prime great mws was that the question? I would have to say none, but beating everyone else out there is certainly more worthy of ATG status than DLH losing every fight against ATGs or probable ATGs he's had.

[lparm]

Still avoiding my question it seems. How many times do I have to repeat myself. Don't you think its unfair that I answer your questions but you don't answer mine??

It could of been the same for DLH if he would of decided to stay in one division his whole career. And DLH has done something Hopkins didn't do(10x champ, 6 Divisions), like I said, it goes both ways bro. DLH has been at the top in several divisions, so I don't know where you're getting at being 2nd or 3rd. He was also in the top 5 P4P throughout his prime. 2nd best guy in Baldy or Judah?? lol Margarito was ranked 1st or 2nd if I do recall correctly during that time.

When has DLH ever been the best in his division like you claim he has? At ww he lost to Tito making him 2nd best, then he lost to Mosley when Tito moved up. At 154 Winky was seen as the best and not Vargas and DLH avoided him and once again Mosley beat DLH making him at most 2nd best probably 3rd is more truthful. Then Floyd moved up to 154 and beat DLH again taking away any claim to be the best at that class. And we all know what happend when DLH tried to prove he was the best mw don't we lol. When has he ever been at the top of his division and actually proved he should be top? Sure TheRing may have ranked him top once or twice but when it came down to it DLH proved time and again in his era he's a notch below the best.

[Mr. Fantastic]

How many fighters did Hop beat that beat prime great mws was that the question? I would have to say none, but beating everyone else out there is certain more worthy of ATG status than DLH losing every fight against ATGs or probable ATGs he's had.

Yes, Prime Great Fighters that didn't go up in weight or were blown up welters like Trinidad.

Beating everyone else?? LIKE WHO??? RJJ, JT & Calzaghe were his size and he lost to them.

DLH has defended his belts more than 15 times & has defeated 17 World Champions. Like I said, he may of lost his big fights but they were against future hall of famers. Not Clinton Mitchell.

[Mr. Fantastic]

When has DLH ever been the best in his division like you claim he has? At ww he lost to Tito making him 2nd best, then he lost to Mosley when Tito moved up. At 154 Winky was seen as the best and not Vargas and DLH avoided him and once again Mosley beat DLH making him at most 2nd best probably 3rd is more truthful. Then Floyd moved up to 154 and beat DLH again taking away any claim to be the best at that class. And we all know what happend when DLH tried to prove he was the best mw don't we lol. When has he ever been at the top of his division and actually proved he should be top? Sure TheRing may have ranked him top once or twice but when it came down to it DLH proved time and again in his era he's a notch below the best.

So how does losing to Vargas make Winky the best in the Division???

[lparm]

Yes, Prime Great Fighters that didn't go up in weight or were blown up welters like Trinidad.

Beating everyone else?? LIKE WHO??? RJJ, JT & Calzaghe were his size and he lost to them.

DLH has defended his belts more than 15 times & has defeated 17 World Champions. Like I said, he may of lost his big fights but they were against future hall of famers. Not Clinton Mitchell.

ROFL are you serious??? Are you??? Are you really going to use Mitchell as an example of how DLH is better than Hop? It was his first fight and over a career spanning around 20 years he's done more than enough to erase that blemish. The only ATG that beat Hop at mw was RJJ, the first Taylor fight is highly debatable even more debatable than your Tito-DLH example. And btw Cal-Hop was at 170 which is lt heavy not mw. Hop has beaten good-very good-great fighters at an age when most guys are retired. DLH still has never been the best in his division and no amount of arguing from you can ever change that.

[lparm]

So how does losing to Vargas make Winky the best in the Division???

Watch the fight Vargas was given a gift and refused Winky a rematch, then Winky beat Mosley twice the man who beat DLH twice. Do you think DLH is better than Winky? lol

[Mr. Fantastic]

ROFL are you serious??? Are you??? Are you really going to use Mitchell as an example of how DLH is better than Hop? It was his first fight and over a career spanning around 20 years he's done more than enough to erase that blemish. The only ATG that beat Hop at mw was RJJ, the first Taylor fight is highly debatable even more debatable than your Tito-DLH example. And btw Cal-Hop was at 170 which is lt heavy not mw. Hop has beaten good-very good-great fighters at an age when most guys are retired. DLH still has never been the best in his division and no amount of arguing from you can ever change that.

Well you seem to be counting EVERY loss DLH has, so why can't I use Mitchell. I know it was his first fight but its still a lose.
Like I said.......WHO Are these good-great fighters that you talk about so much?? Has he beaten more world champions than DLH??

[roundingace]

I think he is a for sure HOF. The option of an ATG needed to be refined a little bit to where on the list he would go. He wouldn't be rated very high (top 75 maybe) as a fighter, but as someone said on the first page, his IMPACT on the sport and what he has done (although not in recent times) to help elevate it, is unparalleled. Top 10 ATG as an impact on boxing IMO.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Watch the fight Vargas was given a gift and refused Winky a rematch, then Winky beat Mosley twice the man who beat DLH twice. Do you think DLH is better than Winky? lol

I did, I thought Vargas won, and I don't even like Vargas. Styles makes fights, just cause Winky beat Mosley doesn't mean he's going to beat DLH.