Is Calzaghe the Greatest of All Time?

[JulioCesaChavez]

Hurrah, glen Johnson is an ATG too! ****heads....

[Benny Leonard]

You are right, Calzaghe does equate with Marciano in a lot of ways.

When did I say he hasn't earned my respect? Seriously dude you need to stop misinterpreting everything I say.

All I said was Calzaghe is not close to the top 10 greatest fighters in the history of the sport. 99% of members on this site would agree with me.

I would be one of them that agrees. He'll be in the top 100 when ESPN and Bert Sugar do their updates of their lists.

[Dan...]

I would be one of them that agrees. He'll be in the top 100 when ESPN and Bert Sugar do their updates of their lists.

Exactlly. IMO the debate should be whether or not he is in the top 60/75 bracket right now.

[Benny Leonard]

Exactlly. IMO the debate should be whether or not he is in the top 60/75 bracket right now.

I think many on these boards over-look how many "Great" fighters there have been over the past 100+ years.

They just base it on whoever they know off hand and can name...which amounts to maybe a dozen greats. So in that 12, Calzaghe is in the top 10.

I would leave it to somebody that is well read in boxing, has watched a library of Films, been around the game and has the inside scoop on what happened with each fight, and if they boxed, that would be a bonus. Which is always why I wondered what Tyson's top 10...top 100 was.

[Benny Leonard]

Hopefully this is accurate...Bert Sugar top 100...got it from http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4165526AAdvUX3

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Wille Pep
4. Joe Louis
5. Harry Greb
6. Benny Leonard
7. Muhammad Ali
8. Roberto Duran
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Jack Johnson
11. Mickey Walker
12. Tony Canzoneri
13. Gene Tunney
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Joe Gans
16. Sam Langford
17. Julio Cesar Chavez
18. Jimmy Wilde
19. Stanley Ketchel
20 Barney Ross
21, Jimmy McLarnin
22. Archie Moore
23. Marcel Cerdan
24. Ezzard Charles
25. Sugar Ray Leonard
26. Joe Walcott (The original)
27. Jake LaMotta
28. Eder Jofre
29. Emile Griffith
30. Terry McGovern
31. George Foreman
32. Johnny Dundee
33. Jose Napoles
34. Pascual Perez
35. Billy Conn
36. Ruben Olivares
37. Joe Frazier
38. Tommy Loughran
39. Sandy Saddler
40. Kid Chocolate
41. Abe Attell
42. Evander Holyfield
43. George Dixon
44. Maxie Rosenbloom
45. Larry Holmes
46. Ted "Kid" Lewis
47. Marvin Hagler
48. Pernell Whitaker
49. Carlos Zarate
50. Thomas Hearns

[Benny Leonard]

51. Battling Nelson
52. Beau Jack
53. Ricardo ;Lopez
54. John L. Sullivan
55. Carlos Monzon
56. Alexis Arguello
57. Carmen Basillio
58. Pete Herman
59. Charley Burley
60. Ike Williams
61. Kid Gavilan
62. Jack Britton
63. **** Tiger
64. Pancho Villa
65. Panama Al Brown
66. Bob Fitszimmons
67. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
68. Tiger Flowers
69. James J.Corbett
70. Tony Zale
71. Tommy Ryan
72. Georges Carpentier
73, Sonny Liston
74. "Kid" McCoy
75. Bob Foster

[Benny Leonard]

76. Freddie Welsh
77. Joe Jeanette
78. Jim Driscoll
79. Jersey Joe Walcott
80. Peter Jackson
81. Ad Wolgast
82. Jack Dempsey (The Nonpareil)
83. Manuel Ortiz
84. James J. Jeffries
85. Salvador Sanchez
86. Jimmy Barry
87. Carlos Ortiz
88. Roy Jones Jr.
89. Wilfredo Gomez
90. Aaron Pryor
91. Bernard Hopkins....................92. Mike Gibbons
93. Jack Delaney ........................94. Johnny Kilbane
95. Willie Ritchie .........................96. Wilfredo Benitez
97. Packey McFarland....................98. Rocky Graziano
99. Lew Jenkins.............................100. Mike Tyson

[Wiley Hyena]

I think many on these boards over-look how many "Great" fighters there have been over the past 100+ years.

They just base it on whoever they know off hand and can name...which amounts to maybe a dozen greats. So in that 12, Calzaghe is in the top 10.

I would leave it to somebody that is well read in boxing, has watched a library of Films, been around the game and has the inside scoop on what happened with each fight, and if they boxed, that would be a bonus. Which is always why I wondered what Tyson's top 10...top 100 was.

I disagree. I personally don't believe Calzaghe is top 10 ATG. But, I can make the argument. His record makes it possible to make the argument. Same can be said about Marciano. This shouldn't infuriate reasonable boxing aficianados.

[Benny Leonard]

I disagree. I personally don't believe Calzaghe is top 10 ATG. But, I can make the argument. His record makes it possible to make the argument. Same can be said about Marciano. This shouldn't infuriate reasonable boxing aficianados.

That's why it is important not to just look at "records." You should be watching the fighter and how that fighter does against so and so. Did he struggle in the fight...how many rounds did he struggle...what was he able to overcome...how good was his opponent...had that opponent lost before, and if so, how many times...as well as how much wear and tear does that opponent have- was he past his prime, was he shot, had he been knocked out?

So much to look into.

Like take Ali: I would give him bonus points for being able to comeback from the layoff where he was noticeably not the same fighter physically...but he was still strong enough mentally, which could really have made him vulnerable knowing he wasn't at his best anymore...and he still won against good opposition.

For Marciano: I'm not big on his opponents and they weren't 200+ pound HWs that some want you to believe...they were right around his weight actually and were past their prime.

What I do like about him was that he came in every fight in tip-top shape and never once slacked off. And he knew when to get out.



I would like to hear your arguments for Joe and Rocky being in the top 10...maybe I'm missing something...convince me

[Dan...]

I disagree. I personally don't believe Calzaghe is top 10 ATG. But, I can make the argument. His record makes it possible to make the argument. Same can be said about Marciano. This shouldn't infuriate reasonable boxing aficianados.

You can definately make the argument. How viable it is is another question.