is calzage an all time great if he beats rjj and retires undefeated???

[Dan...]

But unfortunately he did lose, he chose to step into the ring. Whatever the reason, losses count, just like if Calzaghe were to lose to Pavlik through age that would count too.

As for equating Calzaghe's achievements at SMW with Roy's at LHW, it would be comparable because they beat a similar standard of opposition, but the difference is that 1) Calzaghe has twice as many defences and 2) he never lost. All of Jones losses came at LHW and he was about the same age Calzaghe is now, only he wasn't facing drastically younger boxers.

I'm not saying that what Jones did wasn't good, it was, but facts are facts and Jone's run at LHW is not as impressive as Calzaghe's at SMW.

Personally I would say Roy faced better competition but there really isn't a point to arguing it as it just gets tiresome and there is no chance of a concensus being reached.

Also Roy's losses are a result of the fact that he was willing to take a lot of risks. Joe has not taken too many risks in his career.

[Kris Silver]

He only lost to Tarver and Johnson because he tried to come down way too quickly.

I think you can pretty much equate Roy's accompishments at LHW to Joe's at SMW in terms of dominating a division.

Whilst I do give merit to the argument of Roy and his weight effecting him, I find it a little too much to fob it off as an excuse for all 3 losses. I mean that's pretty damn generous to Roy. The first loss, he's a professional and had some time to decide and prepare himself for LHW. Not enough perhaps but thought he was ok and went for it, he lost. 2nd, well he shoulda been way more on his game, conditioning better and general preparation. Another loss, oh it must be the weight still.

By the time Roy faced Tarver again no one was really saying the weight would effect him in that one so much, 2 and a half years after the HW win. He lost again, to a Tarver that didn't bring a great tactical game plan when Roy did, as that's a strength of his.

I think Roy did well in all those fights, the first you never got to see much as was an early KO, so most just put it off as the weight. It's just all to convenient I'm afraid, he was a great athlete and ready to go upto HW in a small amount of time, yet not to go back down? I know it effects you more going back down, but it's just far too convenient and generous to use the weight excuse for the losses over 2 and a half years.

Joe's fought with broken hands, serious elbow injuries, very painful hands, after recovering from food poisoning. These things are rarely brought up, so I also find somewhat of a double standard there, with all due respect. Not to mention the fact some of Joe's decent wins came with some of these issues effecting him to various extents.

[hishaam15]

Here we go again....

Of course Calzaghe dominated his division, he was champ for ten years and unified it against younger champs. No-one could, or can beat him. Hopkins was a middleweight and Jones a LHW. Bringing up Ottke is just silly, as really is saying that Calzaghe has not dominated SMW.

Jones lost to Tarver and Johnson. I consider them to be his best opposition at LHW, why, who do you think is better?

Lol Johnson and Tarver best opposition at LHW? they only rose to fame AFTER they beat Jones. otherwise Eric Harding was considered to be better than Tarver (they both fought to be Jones Mandatory, and Harding won), and Jones knocked him out, so what did that tell him about Tarver?

As for competition. Jones won all the belts straight away, and defended them. Clz won ONE belt, defended that for years, before finally stepping up to B-level competition and unifying.

[Dan...]

He was clearly a shell of his former self after he had to shed the weight to make LHW. It is quite obvious if you watch the few fights prior to Ruiz then the 3 losses how different a fighter he was. It pretty much ruined him but I don't think he could admit it. He kept trying to fight the same way but without the same juice in the tank.

What double standard? I didn't say anything about Joe not fighting with adversity.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Lol Johnson and Tarver best opposition at LHW? they only rose to fame AFTER they beat Jones. otherwise Eric Harding was considered to be better than Tarver (they both fought to be Jones Mandatory, and Harding won), and Jones knocked him out, so what did that tell him about Tarver?

As for competition. Jones won all the belts straight away, and defended them. Clz won ONE belt, defended that for years, before finally stepping up to B-level competition and unifying.

Jones didn't have Harding hurt one time during the fight. Harding was actually giving Jones his toughest defense until Harding's ankle broke and the fight was ruled a TKO win for Jones. By no means did he take control of the fight at any point.

[Drunk Punch]

i think his resume is more of a joke than mayweather but he has accomplished some impressive things.

You think Mayweather's resume is a joke???!!! Boy, you don't impress easily!

[IMDAZED]

I guess RJJ didn't dominate either. He never faced Darius, the lineal champion.

When did Dariusz beat Michael Spinks?

[IMDAZED]

Here we go again....

Of course Calzaghe dominated his division, he was champ for ten years and unified it against younger champs. No-one could, or can beat him. Hopkins was a middleweight and Jones a LHW. Bringing up Ottke is just silly, as really is saying that Calzaghe has not dominated SMW.

Jones lost to Tarver and Johnson. I consider them to be his best opposition at LHW, why, who do you think is better?

You know what? I'm not gonna even bother responding. Fact is, majority of the world knows Calzaghe isn't an all-time great. Why am I not surprised you do?

And one last thing. Eric Harding was Jones' toughest defense. He earned the shot by easily beating Tarver - breaking Tarver's jaw in the process.

[Cletus Funk]

When did Dariusz beat Michael Spinks?

Yeah, ok.......

[IMDAZED]

Jones didn't have Harding hurt one time during the fight. Harding was actually giving Jones his toughest defense until Harding's ankle broke and the fight was ruled a TKO win for Jones. By no means did he take control of the fight at any point.

Actually Jones did take over down the stretch but that was easily his toughest defense. And I believe it was Harding's bicep/arm that was torn, not his ankle lol.

Harding was a pretty good fighter in his prime. Making the LHW limit completely ****** him dry though. He was never into training. Nevertheless, the version that fought Tarver was excellent. In the rematch, he lost 42lbs in six weeks. Just silly. And he was still dominating until Tarver caught him coming in.