is calzage an all time great if he beats rjj and retires undefeated???

[2quick2slick]

Quick question. What about beating Kelly Pavlik qualifies you as an ATG if beating Kessler or Hopkins doesn't?

Kessler and Hopkins are good accomplishments for Joe. But what I'm saying is he just need to add a Pavlik win in his resume. Pavlik is the man to beat in that division, and Joe and his dad Enzo are is ducking him big time.

[120]

Kessler and Hopkins are good accomplishments for Joe. But what I'm saying is he just need to add a Pavlik win in his resume. Pavlik is the man to beat in that division, and Joe and his dad Enzo are is ducking him big time.

Pavlik is the man to beat in 160. Joe es currently the linear 175 and the longest reigning champ in 168 history. True that Joe only became widely known in these past years but he is one of the biggest champions in the UK. He will go into the IBHF and the UKBHF so even when is true that his resume isn't all that great, he doesn't need pavlik and he will most likely be considered an ATG

[Kris Silver]

Kessler and Hopkins are good accomplishments for Joe. But what I'm saying is he just need to add a Pavlik win in his resume. Pavlik is the man to beat in that division, and Joe and his dad Enzo are is ducking him big time.

What the Middle weight division? Shame Calzaghes 2 weight divisions above. They're not ducking him, they've always known he's good, but he's not good a good enough boxer to challenge Joe in any new way that he's not proven he can deal with before.

If he was at SMW now, had a fight or two there, personally called out Calzaghe, chased a fight, and Calzaghe consistently said no, there might be some merit in the ducking argument. But even still Calzaghe's openly expressed Kelly as his 2nd preference for his last fight, and his first preference in Roy has worked out. If it didn't it's highly likely Joe would fight Pavlik.

[IMDAZED]

Yeah...Pavlik's management really don't want the fight IMO. Not until they see some more flaws.

Pavlik is damn good but horribly overrated on these boards.

[Kris Silver]

Bob Arum wants it, or rather just a massive fight and pay day. Pavlik would fight anyone, which on the one hand shows he has too little input into his career, as he was never really talking of Calzaghe. On the other hand it's quite admirable he'd get in the ring with anyone, just on this one, he'd lose.

[Derranged]

He'll be better than you

[Sithis]

I think you missing the point. Roy is merely a shadow of his former self. he has taken 2 brutal KO losses. and his recent wins arent against that credible of opposition, he is a 39 year old trying to make a comeback after taking some crushing losses.

Joe is at the top right now. he is undefeated. in top 5 p4p at the moment. held the super middleweight title for ovre 10 yrs. with 21 defenses. recently beat undefeated Kessler.

So you must understand because of where Roy is at in his career and whats happened over the years. he isnt a very credible win for Joe at this point. and thats sadly the truth. Joe is taking this fight because the money, and he feels he can win it fairly easily im sure.

so can you see how Roy has nothing to lose and evrerything to gain? and joe basicly has very little to gain but everytihng to lose.

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for those who missed it.

THREAD CLOSED

[Rafael Benitez]

Well yes, I do believe that a 36yr old version of Hopkins beats Calzaghe. So we agree there.

But at 36 he wasn't in his prime.

I mean seriously guys, he broke the middleweight record of title defenses against Tito. Meaning he was tied for the record before. Meaning he was already pretty ****ing good! Meaning he was probably better in his prime (maybe around his 5th defense like everyone else?) than he was at 36!

Lord....

You have to take into consideration quality of opponents. I do agree with you but people will see it as his prime because it was the first time he beat a major opponent. To be honest, I think he schooled Calzaghe and schooled him really bad. He bitchslapped him to the floor in the first! If it happned ten years earlier, ROFL!!!!

trust me peeps, I was born and bred in the UK. White people here are in denial about their average sportsmen and have Joe's **** in their mouths. They know **** all and think Wayne Rooney is world class too when the ugly **** can't even score 15 league goals per season! ROFL. It is same with all their athletes that are of aryan descent. They get overexcited! 'Come on Murray, come on Tiger Tim!' LMAO. Wales is the Henman Hill of boxing! Joe is ****, let's face it!