is calzage an all time great if he beats rjj and retires undefeated???

[IMDAZED]

Please read my posts a little more carefully and try to pick up on some of the subtlety. I do not rate Calzaghe above many, many boxers, like Hagler, Leonard, Hearns etc, but do I rate him as one of the best of the current era, so it stands to reason that he also must be one of the best ever. He might be tenth best MW - LHW or he might be fiftieth, point is he is very good and dominated his own era, which is all you can do.

As for whether Jones is 'better', as I've posted before I believe he is more talented, sure, but he simply did not do at SMW what Calzaghe has done, nor did he beat as tough opposition at that weight. When Jones did face his best opposition at LHW, he lost, which is something Calzaghe has never done.

What was so subtle about your post? You're basically saying what you said before - I can read.

First of all, Calzaghe did not "dominate his own era." How can you say that when fighters such as Jones and Hopkins were right there?

You can't even say he dominated his division because he never fought Sven Ottke, the second best fighter in it!

This is not a Jones-Calzaghe debate because that comparison is not even close. One is an ATG, the other isn't. Hopkins & Toney>>>>>>Kessler & Lacy. Actually, Toney>>>>>>every opponent Calzaghe's ever faced.

Finally, your last statement is false. When Jones met his best opposition at LHW he lost?

Really?

Can you tell me who were the top LHW's from 1997-2002? Thanks.

[Cletus Funk]

What was so subtle about your post? You're basically saying what you said before - I can read.

First of all, Calzaghe did not "dominate his own era." How can you say that when fighters such as Jones and Hopkins were right there?

You can't even say he dominated his division because he never fought Sven Ottke, the second best fighter in it!
This is not a Jones-Calzaghe debate because that comparison is not even close. One is an ATG, the other isn't. Hopkins & Toney>>>>>>Kessler & Lacy. Actually, Toney>>>>>>every opponent Calzaghe's ever faced.

Finally, your last statement is false. When Jones met his best opposition at LHW he lost?

Really?

Can you tell me who were the top LHW's from 1997-2002? Thanks.

I guess RJJ didn't dominate either. He never faced Darius, the lineal champion.

[El Jesus]

beating this version of roy jones does little to nothing for him to be honest. this fight does more for jones than it does calzhage, its funny, calzhage had much more to gain by fighting pavlik than jones, losing to pavlik wouldnt hurt him or his legacy and beating him would have been huge.

[abadger]

What was so subtle about your post? You're basically saying what you said before - I can read.

First of all, Calzaghe did not "dominate his own era." How can you say that when fighters such as Jones and Hopkins were right there?

You can't even say he dominated his division because he never fought Sven Ottke, the second best fighter in it!

This is not a Jones-Calzaghe debate because that comparison is not even close. One is an ATG, the other isn't. Hopkins & Toney>>>>>>Kessler & Lacy. Actually, Toney>>>>>>every opponent Calzaghe's ever faced.

Finally, your last statement is false. When Jones met his best opposition at LHW he lost?

Really?

Can you tell me who were the top LHW's from 1997-2002? Thanks.

Here we go again....

Of course Calzaghe dominated his division, he was champ for ten years and unified it against younger champs. No-one could, or can beat him. Hopkins was a middleweight and Jones a LHW. Bringing up Ottke is just silly, as really is saying that Calzaghe has not dominated SMW.

Jones lost to Tarver and Johnson. I consider them to be his best opposition at LHW, why, who do you think is better?

[hishaam15]

Calzaghe was a good fighter, thats about it. not an ATG wether he beats Jones or not.

Clz could never do the things RJJ has done. Almost all of RJJ's opponents would have beaten ALL of the fighters Clz beat.

If Clz stepped up the competition earlier. beat a prime Jones, Hopkins and Toney (which he wouldnt), then maybe we could call him an ATG, but he was nowhere near as talented as the fighters mentioned above.

[Dan...]

Here we go again....

Of course Calzaghe dominated his division, he was champ for ten years and unified it against younger champs. No-one could, or can beat him. Hopkins was a middleweight and Jones a LHW. Bringing up Ottke is just silly, as really is saying that Calzaghe has not dominated SMW.

Jones lost to Tarver and Johnson. I consider them to be his best opposition at LHW, why, who do you think is better?

He only lost to Tarver and Johnson because he tried to come down way too quickly.

I think you can pretty much equate Roy's accompishments at LHW to Joe's at SMW in terms of dominating a division.

[hishaam15]

Manny Paqciauo could beat Clz hahaha, even if he stayed at his current weight. he would have the speed advantage over Clz and perhaps even the power advantage, as calzaghes punches have got absolutely nothing behind them. All calzaghe had was Speed, he shoulda been a flyweight lmao.. never an ATG no matter what he does now. All legends are ouyt of their prime, and the prospects are nothing special.

Jones one of the top ATG's.. Beats Calzaghe, Avenges his losses, fights at Heavyweight again and wins a belt to become the #1 ATG

[slicksouthpaw16]

Calzaghe is already an all time great for his accomplishments at super middleweight and his long title reign, but beating a washed up Jones at this stage in his career doesn't do much, especially since Jones is ranked at the low bottom at light heavyweight and has not beaten a top guy in i don't know how many years. If Calzaghe wants to be truely remembered, then he needs to bite the bullet and face Pavlik or Dawson, guys that are actually threats his crown.

[abadger]

He only lost to Tarver and Johnson because he tried to come down way too quickly.

I think you can pretty much equate Roy's accompishments at LHW to Joe's at SMW in terms of dominating a division.

But unfortunately he did lose, he chose to step into the ring. Whatever the reason, losses count, just like if Calzaghe were to lose to Pavlik through age that would count too.

As for equating Calzaghe's achievements at SMW with Roy's at LHW, it would be comparable because they beat a similar standard of opposition, but the difference is that 1) Calzaghe has twice as many defences and 2) he never lost. All of Jones losses came at LHW and he was about the same age Calzaghe is now, only he wasn't facing drastically younger boxers.

I'm not saying that what Jones did wasn't good, it was, but facts are facts and Jone's run at LHW is not as impressive as Calzaghe's at SMW.

[abadger]

Calzaghe is already an all time great for his accomplishments at super middleweight and his long title reign, but beating a washed up Jones at this stage in his career doesn't do much, especially since Jones is ranked at the low bottom at light heavyweight and has not beaten a top guy in i don't know how many years. If Calzaghe wants to be truely remembered, then he needs to bite the bullet and face Pavlik or Dawson, guys that are actually threats his crown.

I agree with this. The Jones fight proves nothing and it would be much more impressive if he beat Pavlik, Dawson, or even Tarver.