who was the better fighter Muhammad Ali or Ray Leonard

[Dynamite Kid]

Moore was an old man but he was also the betting favorite against Ali (blame the oddmakers, not me). It's not one of his greatest victories for sure but it was a solid win that put him in the top 10 at that time.

Hagler was not very good at forcing a fight either (aside from the Hearns fight, look at how he did against Duran) and was thought to be past it by many (including Thomas Hearns) by the time Leonard got him.
That does not mean it was not a great win for Leonard.

Liston was seemingly unbeatable to the majority and Ali handled him.


I thought the second win against Norton was legit, I do not really rate Ali's career after the Thrilla in Manila as he was not the fighter he used to be after it.
He was favoured by the judges, jabbed and clinched for decisions.

Muhammad Ali would not have beaten the real Archie Moore the way he did ,the betting odds mean nothing if they are wrong

who cares if Hagler was not good at forcing a fight thats his problem ,has nobody told u that Leonard was not in his prime either and happened to be fighting 2 weight divisions out of his natural weight divison & had been inactive for 2 years lol

Hagler is lucky he was never at 147 when Ray was there cause Ray would have boxed his ears off even worse

had he been a natural ww obviously

[Parody]

well i got Leonard ,Muhammad Ali did not show me the power ,defence ,accuracy that Ray Leonard did i respect the fact u got Ali though

best ever LW : Duran
best ever :MW : Hagler
arugably 2/3 rd best WW ever Hearns
ATG fighter Wilfred Benitez
6 time world champ

These are not facts though, just your opinion. Duran is not thebest lightweight ever, That would be Benny Leonard according to many Boxing historians and Ring magazine. They are both one of the best, but not the best, The best MW of all time would be Carlos Monzon or Harry Greb who Hagler rates above himself

[Ras44]

i respect the fact that you got leonard

you mean best light welterweight as in duran?? i would place pryor and tzu over him

I'm between Duran, Pryor and Chávez.

[Dynamite Kid]

These are not facts though, just your opinion. Duran is not thebest lightweight ever, That would be Benny Leonard according to many Boxing historians and Ring magazine. They are both one of the best, but not the best, The best MW of all time would be Carlos Monzon or Harry Greb who Hagler rates above himself

well its down to interpretation but u get the picture they are arguably the best ever at that weight being in the top 2 itself means u are a fantastic fighter an ATG

[Boogie Nights]

I'm between Duran, Pryor and Chávez.

oh yes, chavez was damn good too

i do consider duran to be the best light weight though. some would place benny leonard ahead, but i havent seen too much footage of leonard to come to conclusion that he's better than duran

also henry armstrong comes to mind

[TheGreatA]

Muhammad Ali would not have beaten the real Archie Moore the way he did ,the betting odds mean nothing if they are wrong

Obviously not but it was a decent win over a name which put Ali in the rankings just as Leonard's win over 37-year old Andy "The Hawk" Price was... I'm not saying it was equal to Leonard's wins over Duran, Hearns, Benitez and Hagler.

who cares if Hagler was not good at forcing a fight thats his problem ,has nobody told u that Leonard was not in his prime either and happened to be fighting 2 weight divisions out of his natural weight divison & had been in active for 2 years lol

That was my point really, why would you discredit Ali's win over Liston over the same thing then...
Liston could not force the fight against Ali, that's his problem, not Ali's, it's still a great win because the public and the experts believed he would slaughter Ali who was 8-to-1 underdog.

Hagler is lucky he was never at 147 when Ray was there cause Ray would have boxed his ears off even worse

Leonard was lucky to 'retire' in 1982 when Hagler was still motivated and in his prime, he was also lucky to 'retire' again when Hagler demanded a rematch and then come back after Hagler retired himself.

I appreciate longevity and Ali had it, Leonard did not.

[MikeBrew328]

I actually have Muhammad Ali in the top 3 all time pound for pound. He could be 1 or 2, it's hard to say, and heres why:

Ray Robinson and Ray Leonard are both all time greatest of the greats. A comparison to opponents would be Ray Robinson to Jake Lamotta or Ray Leonard to Roberto Duran.

But neither of these guys had to fight big mofo's like Joe Frazier or George Foreman. With George Foreman, Ali couldn't dance around like a Sugar Ray, he had to outsmart with the rope a dope. That combined with the numerous victories against great fighters make him the best, you can't count the Ali of the late 70's, that wasn't really him he was shot by then. But he still was a good fighter, something Leonard couldn't do after getting stopped by Camacho

[Dynamite Kid]

Obviously not but it was a decent win over a name which put Ali in the rankings just as Leonard's win over 37-year old Andy "The Hawk" Price was... I'm not saying it was equal to Leonard's wins over Duran, Hearns, Benitez and Hagler.



That was my point really, why would you discredit Ali's win over Liston over the same thing then...
Liston could not force the fight against Ali, that's his problem, not Ali's, it's still a great win because the public and the experts believed he would slaughter Ali who was 8-to-1 underdog.



Leonard was lucky to 'retire' in 1982 when Hagler was still motivated and in his prime, he was also lucky to retire again when Hagler demanded a rematch then come back when Hagler retired himself.

yet but i dont rate Liston as highly as i rate Marvin Hagler infact i think he is poor in comparison


if Leonard had been the same weight naturally as Hagler he would have been schooled even worse ,they needed Ray out the ring for 2 years and fighting at 160lbs to give Hagler a chance and he still got beat LMFAO

[Boogie Nights]

yet but i dont rate Liston as highly as i rate Marvin Hagler infact i think he is poor in comparison


if Leonard had been the same weight naturally as Hagler he would have been schooled even worse ,they needed Ray out the ring for 2 years and fighting at 160lbs to give Hagler a chance and he still got beat LMFAO

you speak of hagler's advantages how about ray, who had the ring that he wanted, the number of rounds that he wanted. that factors in bigtime, much more than ray not fighting and adding a couple of pounds.

ray knew his gameplan coming into the fight. it's not like he needed all that extra weight to outmuscle hagler. he stuck to his gameplan, staying out of danger, using the whole ring, and throwing flurries at the end of each round. that was his bread and butter

plus not a lot of people think that ray won that fight. just as many if not more people including ray will tell you he didnt deserve the draw against hearns in the second fight

[wmute]

Not only that, he gave them rematches.

I am tempted to say WORD

I will just say
WORD minus Foreman,

not blaming Ali but that's a fight that would have surely made sense...