Whoever Floyd beats, you'll keep raising the bar...

[Technical_Skill]

yes of course the bar keeps getting raised - thats what elite sports is all about! You don't stop after one win if you want to go down as an all-time great.

Michael Schumacher
Lance Armstrong
Zinedine Zidane
Ryan Giggs
Martin Johnson
Pete Sampras
Sachin Tendulkar

None of these guys became the best and then said "yeah I'm the best, thats it, everyone else can **** off". they kept proving why they were the best.

I think mayweather has kept proving he is the best for years now.

He won in 5 weight classes, that wasnt enough.

He went to middleweight and fought de la hoya, that wasnt good enough.

He beat Castillo in a remtach, that wasnt good enough.

He makes a fight with hatton, the one fight the fans want to see, and yet people say he is ducking cotto and mosley.

It doesnt really bother me, its just the way it is.

[OptimusWolf]

Right now if he retired he'd probably make 50-100 on an all time list based on achievements (not ability). I don't care whether he fights cotto, mosley, Hatton etc, but unfortunately for him his resume doesn't quite match his view of himself. it's good, but its not great IMO.

So yep, if he wants to be the best in a historical setting, he has got to keep fighting, get the Cotto/Mosley winner and Williams/cintron as well - then he'd be top 20 for sure, possibly top 10.

[squealpiggy]

I think mayweather has kept proving he is the best for years now.

He won in 5 weight classes, that wasnt enough.

He went to middleweight and fought de la hoya, that wasnt good enough.

He beat Castillo in a remtach, that wasnt good enough.

He makes a fight with hatton, the one fight the fans want to see, and yet people say he is ducking cotto and mosley.

It doesnt really bother me, its just the way it is.

All of this is enough to be recognised as the best current fighter. Whether or not he is an all time great is hard to judge right now. We've never seen him up against it, we've never seen him come back against adversity, we haven't seen his full career. The only people who would try to recognise a current fighter as an all time great are the fighter's fans!

[me2007]

how did ryan giggs make it into that list?

[squealpiggy]

how did ryan giggs make it into that list?

He's been United's best player on average since the 90s. Best left sided midfielder in the game. I hate the scum but I like Giggs, I reckon he might join City in a year or two.

[cupcrazy01]

Thiese are the arguments for both sides:

Pro-Floyd: He's undefeated, he's beaten everyone he's ever faced, he is a 5-divison champ, he has only been in one (maybe two or, laughably, zero, depending on who you ask) competitive fight, it's not his fault he's this good, etc etc...

Anti-Floyd: He's avoided various challenges in the various weight divisions he's fought in, he was never the REAL champ at 140, he has only fought one fighter whose natural weight is above 140 (DLH), he doesn't want to fight any of the young welters, etc etc...

So, yes, the bar will still be raised for Floyd after he beats Hatton, but look at all the Hatton hate just on this board alone. Hatton is not perceived as P4P material by much of the American boxing press. Yes, it's a superfight with super appeal, but if you asked 10 boxing experts to rank the most viable challengers to Floyd, the list would rank guys like Cotto, Mosley, Williams, Margarito and DLH in a rematch all ahead of Hatton. A few boxing writers are expecting another Mayweather dominant but snooze-worthy win, so naturally they will want to see him in with somebody better suited to challenge him.

So after this fight he is going to be intensely pressured to face the winner of Cotto-Mosley or Williams in his next fight. If he re-retires, he will be portrayed as ducking these guys...whether or not that's true, that's what is going to happen.

If he beats Hatton and then beats the winner of Cotto-Mosley, I personally will not be a Floyd-pessimist any longer. I do think he is P4P no.1 but I am not so sure how great compared to the all-timers he truly is. Winning two fights like this would put him worthily into the discussion.

Winning those two and then beating Williams or whoever the top challenger will be in a year would put him in the upper echelon of all-timers in my opinion.

[.Mik.]

Mayweather is such a great fighter and has proven his dominance that he will get very little credit for beating Hatton even though Hatton is undefeated, the lineal champion at 140, and in the top 10 P4P. There really isn't a fight out there that can add significantly to his legacy aside from beating the winner of Taylor-Pavlik at 160...

There is a reason why he will get little credit if he beats Hatton, despite Hatton's obvious class and accomplishments. I'm going to demonstrate it to you:

Be serious. Hatton is a decent fighter, but he is out of his league at the world class level. How does a supposedly P4P level fighter in his prime struggle with guys like Maussa, Urango, and Collazo?

Because...despite all of Hatton's class, his record, his achievements. Mayweather fans constantly try to discredit him and his legitimacy. What are you wanting exactly? To spend months saying that Hatton is ****, an easy win for PBF, not in his league and then when he beats him you want us all to say "That was a ****ing top notch victory for Mayweather against an exceptional opponent. He deserves mounds of credits for taking such a dangerous fight"? Wise up mate.

This is the kind of thing that gets annoying.

1. PBF raises his own bar, there's always going to be something else to accomplish

2. There's never going to be a day when everyone says "he's done it all, might as well not even bother anymore, he's the g.o.a.t." That's a ridiculous thing to expect. No one denies he deserves the #1 p4p ranking. What more can you ask of us?


But as a man he's such a childish ****, and his few hardcore fans are so ignorant and lacking in class, that there's always going to be some bitterness about his dominance. You should never ask for anything different

Bingo.

None of us are "childish ****s". And I hope not ignorant/lacking in class.

Somehow, you have been exposed to the worst element within the Mayweather contingent. Just like many Americans think that all soccer fans are racist, brawling houligans.

Nono. I'd say that perhaps YOU and a few other Mayweather fans on here arent childish ****s and arent lacking in class, because you are willing to debate and listen to reason...to an extent. There are pages and pages of threads where Mayweather fans on here talk about fighters...solid fighters with great careers and strong credentials and established legacies...as though they are unfit to tie Floyd's bootstraps. The reason that pisses people off is because thats how Floyd talks about these same fighters too. He has an endless supply of class in the ring, but his classlessness does spill over onto his fans who give no credit to his opponents and then cry after the fight wondering why nobody has given Floyd any credit for the win. Live by example. I'm going to show you another example of why Floyd's fans are generally ****e and routinely detested on this forum:

The critics will never be satisfied. **** him. I doubt Floyd gives a **** when he can take a bath in his own money.

To me...this is insignificant. I love boxing because I love seeing two combatants battling it out. I could literally not give the slightest **** how much money a fighter I support is making. Floyd LOVES the money, he LIVES for the money. Not to entertain, not to build his legacy. But to take the fight that offers him the most money and to win it with the least risk to himself possible...so that he can enjoy his money. Its all about the money. And his fans are impressed by that?!?! I want Hatton to do well with money, I want him to live a good life, I also want him to fight for the entertainment...in a way that entertains...in entertaining fights...to give worth BACK to the fans who have GIVEN HIM THE MONEY. Mayweather doesnt. He wants your money and he wants to do as little as possible to earn it. Then he gloats about it. Classless.

OK. You either did not read what I said, or you are just angry and anxious for a fight. I told you exactly what PBF said , and what he did.

I'll shut my gob and move on. We are not on the same page. Cheers, mate.

You posted a list of what was said, but for some reason you still seem under the false impression that Floyd somehow didnt say one thing and do another.

I think mayweather has kept proving he is the best for years now.

He won in 5 weight classes, that wasnt enough.

He went to middleweight and fought de la hoya, that wasnt good enough.

He beat Castillo in a remtach, that wasnt good enough.

He makes a fight with hatton, the one fight the fans want to see, and yet people say he is ducking cotto and mosley.

It doesnt really bother me, its just the way it is.

Mayweather has done enough to prove in the majority of people's eyes that he is the greatest fighter of his generation and one of the top 50 or so fighters in the history of the sport...and probably higher than that on the list of top technical boxers. I think thats 'good enough' for now until he proves that he deserves better ranking.

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

Deuce,

You make a couple of good points. The fight that I wanted PBF to make back at 135/140 was CASAMAYOR. I agree with that, and I'm STILL disappointed that he didn't find a way to make that happen.

Freitas, Tszyu, etc... those could have been mildy interesting. I don't think any of those guys could have beaten PBF, but they would have been names on the resume.

CORRALES?? Chico never wanted a rematch. To me, that says it all. Many people use the "Diego was dried out" excuse for that fight. Interestingly, six years later and PBF is fighting at welterweight and Diego is still trying to make lightweight fights. True Story.

PBF is just too big, strong and fast for the Barrera/morales/pacquiao/marquez crew. Morales fought Zahir Raheem (Zaheer Rahim?) and got spanked. There's NO WAY he belongs in a ring with PBF.

I thought Floyd was insane for talking about a Winky matchup. I thought that a prime Forrest would handle Floyd. Initially, I thought that Sechew's size, length and speed would be very bad news for him (until "My Little Pony" let Ouma take his heart).

There ARE guys that would have given Floyd problems. But Casamayor was the only one he missed at 130 - 140. The other guys are at 147/154.


side note: I don't do anything "blindly". not my style. Please direct your insults elsewhere.

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

To Answer Your Question...

oh and one more thing, when has floyd been in a monumental fight? when has he had a fight of the year candidate? or been candidate for fighter of the year? round of the year?
..................

1989 Pernell Whitaker
1990 Julio Cesar Chavez
1991 James Toney
1992 Rid**** Bowe
1993 Michael Carbajal
1994 Roy Jones Jr.
1995 Oscar De La Hoya
1996 Evander Holyfield
1997 Evander Holyfield
1998 Floyd Mayweather Jr.
1999 Paulie Ayala
2000 Felix Trinidad
2001 Bernard Hopkins
2002 Vernon Forrest
2003 James Toney
2004 Glen Johnson
2005 Ricky Hatton
2006 Manny Pacquiao

BTW, he has been a CANDIDATE for fighter of the year several times. And he has been on the RING magazine P4P list for almost 500 consecutive weeks.

Just to answer your question.

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

Opinions vary.

Right now if he retired he'd probably make 50-100 on an all time list based on achievements (not ability). I don't care whether he fights cotto, mosley, Hatton etc, but unfortunately for him his resume doesn't quite match his view of himself. it's good, but its not great IMO.

So yep, if he wants to be the best in a historical setting, he has got to keep fighting, get the Cotto/Mosley winner and Williams/cintron as well - then he'd be top 20 for sure, possibly top 10.

But I want you to understand that there ARE knowledgeable (non-black) boxing fans who think that PBF is an all-time great. Already.

Bill Parcells said on FNF that Floyd is in his top FIVE all-time with Ali, SRR, Monzon, etc.

Paulie Malignaggi said that PBF is the greatest ever and would have beaten SRR.

Mike Marley said that PBF is on the same level as SRR.

Personally, I've only seen tapes of SRR. And some of the stuff that I saw so impressed me that I'm not putting PBF on that level. But I CERTAINLY put Floyd on that SRL level. Regardless of where you have SRL.

side note: I mentioned "non-black" because it has become obvious to me that there is GENERALLY a racial rift among PBF's fanbase/detractors, and this upcoming PBF-RH fight will have a clear racial subtext.