Buy or Sell: Drawing the Color Line

[Dr. Z]

And here's a great article from Sam Langford on why Jack Johnson is so great

Also, check out his opinion at the end of the Ketchel "knockdown." I'm sure you'll love it.

'

If you know Langford, he called Jeffries the greatest and picked Jeffries as an old man to beat Johnson So did Jeannettte and most of the contemporary black fighters of the times. Of course there were basing the pick on the Jeffries who was champion not some washed up old man who had not fought in 6 years.

Langford also claimed he was 140 pounds the lone time he meet Johnson and floored and hurt him late? I guess you won't believe that, it does not synch with your agenda.


I flat out listed Johnson best competition as champion that he did not fight! Offers were there. Your excuses are many, Kwep saying oh but 3 offered that were doomed would have been accepted. You're a joke, What about all the others?

Once again: Johnson - Langford, Jeannette, McVey, GB Smith, McCarthy 1/2. No rematches with O'Brien OR Jim Johnson either, who drew with him as champion. Johnson = 4.5 ducks. Plus he made up two stories of fixes with Willard and Ketchel.

Dempsey = Wills, Greb. 2 ducks.

Got it?

I asked you a question four times. I have no clue why you find it hard to reply to it. Who were the best 3 Johnson beat who were near or in their prime? Well ??? Duck, duck duck.

I see you do not want to discuss the article from historian Cox, and I will bury you if the author of the Langford book agrees to reply on Johnson avoiding Sam, and backing out of a signed contract to meet him.

Searching the web and posting something from it won't save you. You seem to like the NY Times, take note they say Johnson was down and dazed. Johnson said Ketchel hit him the hardest and his jaw was never so sore. This was not a fix at all.

[Marchegiano]

No Dempsey did not duck his 4 best. Who are these ducks from Dempsey as champion. Please name them, I can easily name the people Johnson avoided as champion and who he drew with that did not receive re-matches.

Norfolk

Wills

Langford

Jeanette

Godfrey

Hell, he even ducked Battling McGhee until McGhee got into a training session with the champ and ended his bid by admitting he'd never beat Dempsey.


That's six off the top of my head. Norfolk, imo, being the worst of the duckery.

[travestyny]

If you know Langford, he called Jeffries the greatest and picked Jeffries as an old man to beat Johnson So did Jeannettte and most of the contemporary black fighters of the times. Of course there were basing the pick on the Jeffries who was champion not some washed up old man who had not fought in 6 years.

Langford also claimed he was 140 pounds the lone time he meet Johnson and floored and hurt him late? I guess you won't believe that, it does not synch with your agenda.


I flat out listed Johnson best competition as champion that he did not fight! offer were there. Your excuses are many,

Once again: Johnson - Langford, Jeannette, McVey, GB Smith, McCarthy 1/2. No rematches with O'Brien OR Jim Johnson either, who drew with him as champion. Johnson = 4.5 ducks. Plus he made up two stories of fixes with Willard and Ketchel.

Dempsey = Wills, Greb. 2 ducks.

Got it?

I asked you a question four times. I have no clue why you find it hard to reply to it. Who were the best 3 Johnson beat who were near or in their prime? Well ??? Duck, duck duck.

I see you do not want to discuss the article from historian Cox, and I will bury you if the author of the Langford book agrees to reply on Johnson avoiding Sam, and backing out of a signed contract to meet him.

Searching the web and posting something from it won't save you. You seem to like the NY Times, take note they say Johnson was down and dazed. Johnson said Ketchel hit him the hardest and his jaw was never so sore. This was not a fix at all.

You claim the offers were there yet you can't point to any. LMAO When you tried and were celebrating like you won the lottery, you found out that the promoter pulled the fight and you felt really ******, didn't you

I never made any statement about Langford's weight. He's welcome to say what his weight was.



Why are you ducking me so hard? No word about the debate, huh? Duck duck duck

You should be ashamed of yourself. You know you can't prove shlt and that's why you keep ducking my questions.



Duck duck duck.


Now you don't want it to be about his best wins. You want it to be about who he fought in or near their prime. See how you try to switch it up. But that's ok because I don't have to duck like you do. Duck duck duck.

In or near their prime: Tommy Burns, Joe Jeannette, Sam Langford. That was easy.



Now you going to keep ducking me, ball-less? This is the last time I'm going to give you a chance to be a man and step up to answer some questions. If not, don't even think about writing me again. I'm so tired of your bltch ways. Duck duck duck


You couldn't bury me if your life depended on it. You've embarrassed yourself a number of times already making claims that you couldn't back up. Like one of Johnson's fights not being stopped by police....but you had to bite your tongue on that. You stopped mentioning it because it was proven Johnson gave the dude a beating and that hurt your feelings too much. Every time you came back trying to prove something you found out you had shlt. So let me ask you one more time:


Did Jack Johnson agree to fight Sam Langford Three Times and had the fight fall through twice due to Langford dropping the ball and once because the promoter dropped Johnson? Why won't you answer, ball-less? That's what I thought. If you can't answer any questions, go sit in a corner. If we can get three judges on any of these issues guaranteed I'll stomp you out and that's why you are being a bltch about accepting. Aint that right?


Duck duck duck. Once again I answer your questions.....and you hide from mine. See you again next month when you try once more and get laughed at.

[travestyny]

By the way....

If you know Langford, he called Jeffries the greatest and picked Jeffries as an old man to beat Johnson So did Jeannettte and most of the contemporary black fighters of the times. Of course there were basing the pick on the Jeffries who was champion not some washed up old man who had not fought in 6 years.

I see you do not want to discuss the article from historian Cox, and I will bury you if the author of the Langford book agrees to reply on Johnson avoiding Sam, and backing out of a signed contract to meet him.

LMAO. So what you're saying is that we shouldn't believe Langford who fought the dude, but we should believe Monty Cox instead. LMAOOO. Think about that again, dumbo. By the way, Sam Langford was actually at Jeffries training camp for the Johnson bout. How about Monty Cox? No? How many rounds did Monty Cox go with these guys? None? Ok.

You yourself have tried to give me the whole "but Langford said this and that" story, so it' so very funny that when it's thrown back at you, now we shouldn't believe Langford. Well what do ya know????? LMAO. Please tell me why Sam Langford would want to lie about how good Jack Johnson was??? Should be fun to hear. And also give me your argument for why Monte Cox knows more about boxing than Sam Langford. Would love to hear that as well.

You seem to like the NY Times, take note they say Johnson was down and dazed. Johnson said Ketchel hit him the hardest and his jaw was never so sore. This was not a fix at all.

Which is why he was so dazed when he got up, but his wolverine super healing kicked in and he was able to punch Ketchel's head in with the force to knock himself to the floor again, leaping over ketchel, and picked himself up in a flash with no issue at all. Also why he began going down from the punch before it even landed. lMAO. Yea, ok.


Sorry, I'm going to go with that knockdown being a complete farce. There is a reason Langford agrees. Because it was...and it doesn't seem like it was that much of a secret amongst those who don't have an agenda like you, or those who have a brain.



But don't let this reply stop you from answering some questions, ball-less, yea? Once again....Did Jack Johnson agree to fight Sam Langford three times and have the fight not come off three times due to no fault of his own. I'm waitingggggggg.........

[Dr. Z]

Norfolk

Wills

Langford

Jeanette

Godfrey

Hell, he even ducked Battling McGhee until McGhee got into a training session with the champ and ended his bid by admitting he'd never beat Dempsey.


That's six off the top of my head. Norfolk, imo, being the worst of the duckery.

I said as Champion. Let's be real, Jeanette wasn't a planned fight, there was not offer to fight Langford as champion either. Show me the purse offer please

I would like do see something on Godfrey, you can produce that? Godfrey was rated #6 annually by 1925. The next year Tunney was champion. IMO, not a duck, unless you consider not fighting a guy ranked 6th who was Ko'd five times before a duck.

Wills deserved the shot the most, not Norfolk. You the only one who things that. Do you really believe Norfolk deserved a shot over Wills who was #1 ranked and a legit heavyweight for years?

Ring magazine rankings 1925

Jack Dempsey, Champion Harry Wills Gene Tunney Jack Renault Bud Gorman George Godfrey Jack Sharkey Young Bob Fitzsimmons Paolino Uzcudun Jim Maloney Harry Persson Emilio (King) Solomon Johnny Risko Ray Neuman Ed Keeley

And 1924

Jack Dempsey, Champion Harry Wills Tommy Gibbons Charley Weinert Quintin Romero Rojas Jack Renault Luis Angel Firpo George Godfrey Jim Maloney Erminio Spalla

Look who the #1 contender is.

[Marchegiano]

I said as Champion. Let's be real, Jeanette wasn't a planned fight, there was not offer to fight Langford as champion either. Show me the purse offer please

I would like do see something on Godfrey, you can produce that? Godfrey was rated #6 annually by 1925. The next year Tunney was champion. IMO, not a duck, unless you consider not fighting a guy ranked 6th who was Ko'd five times before a duck.

Wills deserved the shot the most, not Norfolk. You the only one who things that. Do you really believe Norfolk deserved a shot over Wills who was #1 ranked and a legit heavyweight for years?

Ring magazine rankings 1925

Jack Dempsey, Champion Harry Wills Gene Tunney Jack Renault Bud Gorman George Godfrey Jack Sharkey Young Bob Fitzsimmons Paolino Uzcudun Jim Maloney Harry Persson Emilio (King) Solomon Johnny Risko Ray Neuman Ed Keeley

And 1924

Jack Dempsey, Champion Harry Wills Tommy Gibbons Charley Weinert Quintin Romero Rojas Jack Renault Luis Angel Firpo George Godfrey Jim Maloney Erminio Spalla

Look who the #1 contender is.

Yes I do - Norfolk

Yes I can - Godfrey

"Jack Dempsey had better stay away from Kid Norfolk, the coal black chattering sharpshooter that pasted Bill Tate all over the ring in the overture numbered Dempsey's Humiliation. From a neutral camp chair at the ringside it looked as though this Norfolk baby could pull the hidden ball trick on the champion in about five rounds and tag him 8-9-10 out!" Ring Leander

The public wanted to see Norfolk. Norfolk beat quite a few of the guys Dempsey decided to fight before Dempsey gave them a shot. Norfolk beat Greb as well, Dempsey ducked Grebb. There's plenty of reason Norfolk should have been a challenger. I don't know of any better reasons, public support, resume, timing. The **** else you need? An unofficial rating because it's hard to pull any other rating for the era? Get me? He's fought the men Jack fights, he's beaten them, he's fought the men Jack refuses, he's beaten them. He fought the men Jack trains with and made a statement with him. He's put pressure on Dempsey in many way and the public took notice. That's a bit better than making Nat's coochie wet.

Far as Godfrey is concerned I'm a bit surprised you don't know this tale. Like McGhee except Godfrey wasn't fired for becoming soft after Jack hit him and didn't change his tune. Godfrey was fired from a ten year contract as a sparring partner because he " Left the champion punch drunk and softened up for Gibbons". The media was reporting on how Godfrey was getting the better of Jack, the trainers were not happy their man is being busted up and looking poorly in the press, so, they ran a story which was later redacted by the story teller about Godfrey being too hurt to continue training with Jack. From there, Godfrey makes repeated attempts to prove Jack was on the hurt end of their sparring. It's not until after the fact it's revealed Dempsey's team conspired to remove and humiliate Godfrey because they were scared of him. If that's not a duck nothing is and no ranking can ever break that.

Pretty sure coverage of both these is in Sundowners.

One beat up everyone he fought for the title before they fought for the title and the other beat up Dempsey enough to make Dempsey's then three man team scared of him. Those are ducks. Good ducks too.



Finally, you'd be smoking that goodness if you told me Miske deserved a damn thing neither one of these men deserved. Were they friends or some **** or just an easy fight for Jack? You don't have to be a better option than Wills to be a man Jack ducked. Just better than the likes of Billy and Georges because that is who Dempsey actually fought. I don't understand the Wills bit at all.....yup, Jack ducked him too, doesn't mean he did not duck Godfrey or Norfolk. He fought Miske, Brennan, etc, he ducked everyone worth half a damn.

[travestyny]

I said as Champion. Let's be real, Jeanette wasn't a planned fight, there was not offer to fight Langford as champion either. Show me the purse offer please
.

I hope you doubt this historian and wreck the rest of your silly arguments here,

"The funny thing about Langford is that he's half-blind, and he comes to Doc Kearns [manager of heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey] in the '20s -- and remember, Sam Langford has been fighting since the aughts -- and he wants to fight Dempsey. And Doc Kearns says, 'Sam, we were looking for somebody easier.'

Articles from back then back this story up.

It's as if all of us exist here just to educate you. You're almost as bad as Queenie now.


Oh, and I like how you try to argue that Harry Wills ducked Godfrey, and in the same breath you're clinging to Wills being the #1 contender to say Dempsey didn't duck others. lol. So Wills being the #1 contender means Dempsey is absolved from not fighting others, yet that doesn't apply to Wills who was waiting for his shot. How many times can you be exposed here with your doo doo logic? Just stop. The ducking you do and your non-sensical arguments are just annoying now. You got banned at the last website. Hopefully the same happens to you here so we can be free of your idiocy.

[Anthony342]

They actually called Sam Langford "The Boston Tar Baby" in the press? How TF did he not sue back then? Dude, that's just disgusting. Aren't incidents like that why the NAACP was created in the first place?

[travestyny]

They actually called Sam Langford "The Boston Tar Baby" in the press? How TF did he not sue back then? Dude, that's just disgusting. Aren't incidents like that why the NAACP was created in the first place?

Man, you think that's bad?

I just started reading Unforgivable Blackness. The newspapers were OUT OF CONTROL! Just blatant disgusting racial abuse.

[Anthony342]

Man, you think that's bad?

I just started reading Unforgivable Blackness. The newspapers were OUT OF CONTROL! Just blatant disgusting racial abuse.

Do they mention this in the Unforgivable Blackness documentary as well?