Did Greb duck Panama Gans?

[Marchegiano]

I only know this story from an excerpt I can't find online. I will do my best to tell the tale from memory in my words without ****ing it up, but, if y'all need me to scan the pages I've lifted the tale from to know what the heck I'm on about I'll do that....you know, later.


So, I don't have a date for you, or even a location...****, but, Apparently Greb was scheduled to defend against another man, who I forgot. That fight fell threw with only days to find a replacement. Panama Joe would come in as the replacement.

Joe and Harry's teams would have made this deal. There is no proof Harry knew of the change until the day of.

Harry's manager gave a speak that basically said they are drawing the colorline. The crowd boo'd do Harry took over. The crowd was ok with Harry's spiel until he called Panama a n!g in full though. Panama set toward Harry, Harry apologized and he and his manager left while thew crowd boo'd and threw trash.

Papers of the time would point out Greb had no problem fighting Willie Langford for the MW title but now that he has to face a man of Panama's caliber he's ready to draw the line and stay safe.


Is that a fair depiction? Was Harry Greb, one of the most fightingest mug to ever fight, worried as champion about black men making him look bad?

Was it just short notice ya reckon or is this something Harry actually did a few times?

I realize after the Willie fight Greb fought black men, but never Gans. I'm not asking if he ducked blacks, clearly he didn't, it's just kind of shocking to hear any kind of turn down from team Greb. He has a mystique these days ya know, and, unless I'm well off isn't he the guy who gave blacks a chance at the MW title anyway? Tiger's the first black MW champ because Greb did that work....bit of a shock to hear he didn't want Panama on his record....to me.


edit- I see the mistakes, they're not as important as this though. I don't feel like I posed the question well. Does Panama being black have part of it or is it simply this is a good fight on short notice Greb would rather train for, or some such similar? It is worse, in the teens and twnties to lose to a black man than to lose right? Would Greb have weighed that as well or is it simple situational and any man in Joe position good enough to warrant a camp would have been turned down?

[Willie Pep 229]

It was a common dirty trick to switch fighters at the last minute trying to catch a big name fighter off guard/unprepared. MSG tried the same deal with Dempsey.

Dempsey (pre-champion but on the rise) was invited/scheduled for a four round exhibition (charity fight) against a nobody and as he climbed through the ropes Doc Kearns recognized that they switched the nobody with Jean Jeannette (local boy with local backing).

It was a dirty trick attempt to try to catch the then rising star Dempsey unprepared and steal his mojo. Kearns wasn't buying it and took Dempsey from the ring, and the crowd booed, of course.

People today even want to call Dempsey on it saying that he "ducked" Jeannette. You are now doing the same thing with Greb, you are pointing to a proper refusal to a dirty trick ambush and suggesting it discredits a great fighter.

I am sure you know well that a fighter has to be mentally ready for big fight and getting ambushed at the last minute as he climbs through the ropes (with a considerably better fighter than expected) is a "dirty trick" that needs to be avoided.

Switching fighters was a common dirty trick used and it's one of the reasons why fighters had to give up a % of their purses to managers, for protection!

[travestyny]

It was a common dirty trick to switch fighters at the last minute trying to catch a big name fighter off guard/unprepared. MSG tried the same deal with Dempsey.

Dempsey (pre-champion but on the rise) was invited/scheduled for a four round exhibition (charity fight) against a nobody and as he climbed through the ropes Doc Kearns recognized that they switched the nobody with Jean Jeannette (local boy with local backing).

It was a dirty trick attempt to try to catch the then rising star Dempsey unprepared and steal his mojo. Kearns wasn't buying it and took Dempsey from the ring, and the crowd booed, of course.

People today even want to call Dempsey on it saying that he "ducked" Jeannette. You are now doing the same thing with Greb, you are pointing to a proper refusal to a dirty trick ambush and suggesting it discredits a great fighter.

I am sure you know well that a fighter has to be mentally ready for big fight and getting ambushed at the last minute as he climbs through the ropes (with a considerably better fighter than expected) is a "dirty trick" that needs to be avoided.

Switching fighters was a common dirty trick used and it's one of the reasons why fighters had to give up a % of their purses to managers, for protection!

What you say would make sense, if Dempsey didn't say that he would fight ANY MAN for the charity.

And then when he found out it was Joe Jeannete, he said he would fight ANY TWO WHITE MEN instead.


That's pretty telling.

[Willie Pep 229]

What you say would make sense, if Dempsey didn't say that he would fight ANY MAN for the charity.

And then when he found out it was Joe Jeannete, he said he would fight ANY TWO WHITE MEN instead.


That's pretty telling.

As you like to say "Prove That!" I would like to see the source.

[travestyny]

As you like to say "Prove That!" I would like to see the source.

And if I do? Will it be enough or is there going to be moving goalposts?

[Willie Pep 229]

And if I do? Will it be enough or is there going to be moving goalposts?

Looks like a duck to me! (LOL a great double entendre if I don't say so myself)

I want to see if you are going to show me Jeannette's people issuing another promo blast or not. That the real goal post, is the source reliable or is it just another promo?

[travestyny]

Looks like a duck to me! (LOL a great double entendre if I don't say so myself)

I want to see if you are going to show me Jeannette's people issuing another promo blast or not. That the real goal post, is the source reliable or is it just another promo?

You're accusing me of ducking? All I asked was if there are going to be any excuses if I prove what I said.

I don't know what you mean by Jeannette's people issuing a promo. What do you mean by "another" promo?

Would have loved to find out the answers to these questions before i posted but I don't want to hijack Marchegiano thread. And I apologize to him, but I didn't bring up this topic. Hopefully it's a brief detour.

Here is the source for Dempsey being willing to fight any heavyweight. Which makes sense because the fight was 3 days away.

...that he was willing to box any heavyweight for the fund. Dempsey left it to the management of the show to select his opponent.

And here is the source for him agreeing to fight 2 white guys instead of Jeannette.

Later it was announced that he would meet any two men, but when Jack Britton and Soldier Bartfeld accepted the defi his manager sidestepped and refused....

Still look like a duck to you? Let the excuses begin.

[Willie Pep 229]

You're accusing me of ducking? All I asked was if there are going to be any excuses if I prove what I said.

I don't know what you mean by Jeannette's people issuing a promo. What do you mean by "another" promo?

Would have loved to find out the answers to these questions before i posted but I don't want to hijack Marchegiano thread. And I apologize to him, but I didn't bring up this topic. Hopefully it's a brief detour.

Here is the source for Dempsey being willing to fight any heavyweight. Which makes sense because the fight was 3 days away.

And here is the source for him agreeing to fight 2 white guys instead of Jeannette.

Still look like a duck to you? Let the excuses begin.

Yes, Kearns did what he should have done, "willing to fight the original opponent Joe Bond" (a nobody) not Joe Jeannette a very good somebody.

You think he should be bound to a dirty trick because you like that particular fighter.

Thanks for proving my point.

[billeau2]

You're accusing me of ducking? All I asked was if there are going to be any excuses if I prove what I said.

I don't know what you mean by Jeannette's people issuing a promo. What do you mean by "another" promo?

Would have loved to find out the answers to these questions before i posted but I don't want to hijack Marchegiano thread. And I apologize to him, but I didn't bring up this topic. Hopefully it's a brief detour.

Here is the source for Dempsey being willing to fight any heavyweight. Which makes sense because the fight was 3 days away.

And here is the source for him agreeing to fight 2 white guys instead of Jeannette.

Still look like a duck to you? Let the excuses begin.

Who was Joe Bond his "original" opponent? I know these sources are not designed to show the situation en total... Its just confusing to me because It sounded from the original source that they had a time finding him an opponent, got this guy "Joe Bond?" and then we hear that jeanette is in the ring...

And to compound the difficulty Dempsey is (seemingly) braggadocious, telling the crowd he will fight two men (rather than Jeanette?) ... And then almost in a footnote it is mentioned his original opponent would only be allowed to fight him. We never learn anything about this original opponent and why he is not in the ring.

This is unrelated but I could not help but wonder how this whole thing holds together from the start. Seems like the crowd was behind Jeanette.

[billeau2]

Yes, Kearns did what he should have done, "willing to fight the original opponent Joe Bond" (a nobody) not Joe Jeannette a very good somebody.

You think he should be bound to a dirty trick because you like that particular fighter.

Thanks for proving my point.

Can I repeat my post to T, to you? do you have any idea how this whole situation held together?