Who is the greatest of all time? P4P? Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather or RJJ?

[Richard]

I think thats bias towards older fighters, look at RJJ and Robinson side by side, play both at the same time

I will have a look.

Thing is though across most of the board most boxing writers seem to put Sugar Ray Robinson as the best pound for pound ever.Even Muhammad Ali said the same thing?

[AlexKid]

Just want to clarify a few points in my post:

There are some who will look at my post and say: "Roy had power!" Yeah true... But the devil hides in the details. Look at the type of fighters, the calibre of fighter who was being Ko'ed with that power.

If you look at the power mechanics Robinson never telegraphs, Roy uses speed, feints, but often comes back with the arm. Just one of those things, and perhaps a reason why Robinson could KO some of the best.

SRR was jogging around the road like an old man that just woke from bed , those guys just didnt move the same, he moved the best of the lot of them and he had the leg muscles of a bed ridden grandpa

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Look from where I started it, thats how my little brother punches me when I grab hold of his nose




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[them_apples]

I think thats bias towards older fighters, look at RJJ and Robinson side by side, play both at the same time

Roy Jones is great, and a great athlete. But RR at welter being 5 ft 11 and a very crafty fighter with a better chin than Jones is still better.

Jones is faster and in the middle of the ring he is great, but RR had some things that Jones doesn't have, just overall ring craft. Jones when he slowed down started getting slept by everyone. RR can slip and roll, counter, combinations etc.

I don't know who wins at 160 though, Jones could. But p4p at 147 srr is the goat

[billeau2]

Roy Jones is great, and a great athlete. But RR at welter being 5 ft 11 and a very crafty fighter with a better chin than Jones is still better.

Jones is faster and in the middle of the ring he is great, but RR had some things that Jones doesn't have, just overall ring craft. Jones when he slowed down started getting slept by everyone. RR can slip and roll, counter, combinations etc.

I don't know who wins at 160 though, Jones could. But p4p at 147 srr is the goat

I am such a goof...I cannot tell the numbers to the original divisions palm slap. Ok so 160 would make Roy a large Middle Weight, probably his best weight. He would be rough for anyone at this weight.

People can sometimes confuse the quantity of what a fighter can do with a notion that this guarantees success. Could Roy beat Robinson at this weight? I don't think so but it would not suprise me.

Two questions for me would be Roy's punch resistance and if Robinson could counter him given Roy's speed, could Robinson time him? Love to see this match.

[Rusty Tromboni]

It's funny how long the internet has been around for, and yet the conversation still comes up.

Harry Greb is the GOAT, and it's not even close.

The fact that we don't have film of him hurts his case, but we have footage of some of his best opponents and it's mint.

The best on film are Duran and Lomachenko. Pep, Jofre, Robinson, Canzoneri, Gomez, Whitaker, SRL aren't too far behind.

The talk about Ray Robinson and Benny Leonard being P4P in their respective eras had as much to do with entertainment value as it had to do with skill. They were knockout artists par excellence, which separated from other fighters who were also defensively sound but could't finish with the same crescendo.

I think

No you don't.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I am such a goof...I cannot tell the numbers to the original divisions palm slap. Ok so 160 would make Roy a large Middle Weight, probably his best weight. He would be rough for anyone at this weight.

People can sometimes confuse the quantity of what a fighter can do with a notion that this guarantees success. Could Roy beat Robinson at this weight? I don't think so but it would not suprise me.

Two questions for me would be Roy's punch resistance and if Robinson could counter him given Roy's speed, could Robinson time him? Love to see this match.

Idon't know of anyone who considers 160 Roy's best. Most of us say 168, 175, then 160. But even then, he entered the ring much larger than what he weighed on the scales. Even for the Ruiz fight, he entered the ring at 200 pounds - 10 pounds over weigh-in.

That's clearly not a natural Middleweight. Let's not forget, either, that most of Roy's success came from a needle in the ass.

My one brother is a pretty well known hitting coach, I asked him if he would consider guys like Bonds and Maguire great hitters, and he said aboslutely not. The technique and accuracy were there, but steroids helped those guys soooo much. It's impossible to really evaluate their natural skills. Then he rattled off about a whole bunch of notable batters from decades before, but who didn't have the numbers of a Bonds, but who look just as good on film. Maybe it's genetic?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Roy Jones is great, and a great athlete. But RR at welter being 5 ft 11 and a very crafty fighter with a better chin than Jones is still better.

Jones is faster and in the middle of the ring he is great, but RR had some things that Jones doesn't have, just overall ring craft. Jones when he slowed down started getting slept by everyone. RR can slip and roll, counter, combinations etc.

I don't know who wins at 160 though, Jones could. But p4p at 147 srr is the goat

Robinson upon his debut was specializing in battering smaller men, pretty much the antithesis of P4P.

He would have been Lightweight Champion if the belts weren't on freeze during the War. And many of his greatest Welterweight victories came when he was effectively fighting as a Middleweight.

He was great at KO'ing guys but Jimmy McLarnin was far better. McLarnin of course was more ambitious in his pursuits, and ran into much better competition. Ray was more cautious, and luckier.

I'll admit that Ray's defense and mobility were superior to McLarnin's, and his performances were flashier. But it doesn't take too hard a look at Ray's career to see the P4P accolade doesn't really stick. It's consummate American branding.

Now, look at a guy like Jofre, and tell me what you like better about Robinson. Or look at Walker, and tell me who the better fighter was.

[travestyny]

Sugar Ray Robinson. The GOAT.


Also, he's the very reason the term P4P came about.

[AlexKid]

He had a happy life, RIP Corsa

[AlexKid]

AlexKid gives a good send off