Who is the greatest of all time? P4P? Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather or RJJ?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Dude. You have Lomachenko as #3 all time.

Find me more fighters who look better on film and we can talk.

No natural Featherweight has ever buzzed his way through the Lightweight division as Lomachenko is doing now.

.

You have Dempsey at #20, and ALI somewhere below that.

Yup. P4P Dempsey is better than Ali. I dunno how you can dispute that.

Do you really think that if Ali came of age pre-WWII he would have been much more than a Black Max Baer?

Can you imagine how much greater Dempsey would have been if he had Ali's special treatment: the amateurs; Angelo Dundee; Willie Pep as a reference to what Boxing can be?

Frazier was bigger than Dempsey, but definitely not better. He gave prime Ali a thorough ass kicking. Even then, Ali's size wasn't enough.

Even ali's best win (over Foreman) doesn't compare with the dominance and violence Dempsey unloaded on Willard in Ohio in 19. There's no questioning who the greater talent was. Who over came greater odds to achieve greatness.

And I won't go into details about other comments that got you banned for racism here.

don't forget for making fun of pedophiles! I got the penalty box for that one, too. Immediately.

Look, if you need to "call the cops" every time a conversation doesn't go your way, you're only proving what people already think about you and your infantile behavior.

I stand by facts. The humor is just there to add a little favor. I don't know why being funny is against the rules. But the facts aren't any less factual just because they're delivered with humor.

[travestyny]

Ohh wow! Look out Barry *****! Auntie T is in the running for her own Nobel Prize!

Look at you! So intelligent. So well-spoken. So persuasive. I'd love to hear you deliver a sermon.

This is really incredible stuff! I am amazed! You were able to use a search engine to bring Ray's BoxRec profile! Did you do that all by yourself!? What an accomplishment!

I'll throw you a bone and look through it:

OK, so we see at Welterweight beating up on Lightweights. Then, when he grows out of his Welterweight frame, we see a Middleweight beating up on Welterweights. Once he becomes a Middleweight things level out. He still wins more often than not, but he drops fights to fighters who are clearly not ATGs. Oh, and he got hot flashes against Maxim.

Not sure what I am supposed to be blown away by. Clearly an exceptional fighter, but just as clearly not the best. Maybe the best matched/managed?




Sweet. A bigger man beating up on smaller, usually much out-matched, men.

He drops his hands too much - very easy to hit.

He throws wide.

When he can't figure an opponent out, he uses his charisma and volume. But it's far from effeicient or surgical.

I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to fight like this.

It's like a cross between Ike Williams and Tommy Hearns, more mobile than both, though.



As if I haven't answered this numerous times - at least once in this thread alone.

Tell me how Ray - who was bigger than Greb - wins more than 5 rounds against Loughran.

Maxim was too much for him. Little Jakie LaMotta'sjab gave him problems. Turpin's refusal to stand there and be hit gave Ray FITS.
So how does he fair against a guy who's the same size as himself(if not a little bigger), and a better Boxer than anyone else he ever fought?

He wouldn't beat Walker, let alone claim half the scalps Greb claimed at Light Heavyweight.

And herein lies the joke.

You claimed I was tryin too hard. I literally sent you a link to boxrec and a documentary

Meanwhile, you're writing me a novel that I won't read because anyone with Lomachenko as a current #3 pound for pound ever and Ali under a 20th ranked Dempsey is an absolute moron who should have his keyboard taken away whenever he wants to even mention boxing.

Truly pathetic.

But where them Greb videos at, doe? Still wanna see how he passes that eye test.


By the way, more lies from you regarding RRobinson being a weight bully Greb fought a higher percentage of his fights outweighing his opponents on the official scale than Robinson did. Keep making up lies. LMAO.

Robinson outweighed his opponent (even by a fraction) about 36% of the time in his entire career. Greb? About 40% of the time. Is that gonna make you cry?

Had to go back and see what else you lied about. Ray Robinson bigger than Greb???? lol

More lies. You realize this can be checked into, right? So now your new agenda against Ray Robinson is to lie about him being a weight bully? So pathetic.

You wanna know how he takes 5 rounds off Loughran? With his fists. Same way Maxim needed a knockout to win by the 12th round and got lucky the heat stopped Robinson, and also one of the refs and a few spectators from what I've read. Now come back with those vids so we can both see if Greb passes the eye test. LMAO.

[Rusty Tromboni]

And herein lies the joke.

You claimed I was tryin too hard. I literally sent you a link to boxrec and a documentary

Meanwhile, you're writing me a novel that I won't read because anyone with Lomachenko as a current #3 pound for pound ever and Ali under a 20th ranked Dempsey is an absolute moron who should have his keyboard taken away whenever he wants to even mention boxing.

Truly pathetic.

But where them Greb videos at, doe? Still wanna see how he passes that eye test.


By the way, more lies from you regarding RRobinson being a weight bully Greb fought a higher percentage of his fights outweighing his opponents on the official scale than Robinson did. Keep making up lies. LMAO.

Robinson outweighed his opponent (even by a fraction) about 36% of the time in his entire career. Greb? About 40% of the time. Is that gonna make you cry?

Had to go back and see what else you lied about. Ray Robinson bigger than Greb???? lol

More lies. You realize this can be checked into, right? So now your new agenda against Ray Robinson is to lie about him being a weight bully? So pathetic.

You wanna know how he takes 5 rounds off Loughran? With his fists. Same way Maxim needed a knockout to win by the 12th round and got lucky the heat stopped Robinson, and also one of the refs and a few spectators from what I've read. Now come back with those vids so we can both see if Greb passes the eye test. LMAO.

Yup. Definitely trying way too hard.

[Htown-Finest]

Ray Robinson. Easy.

[billeau2]

The pitchers are better to a point. They're better at shooting fire. But how many guys can finish a game? The ball is also designed to hit further. They even practice with balls similar to more traditional baseballs and the difference in distance is significant.

It's not unlike Boxing, which has generally become safer, but which much better supports being explosive. Roy is exemplar of that.

In the pre-PEDs era, with 15 rounds of fighting, we didn't see a Roy Jones, Jr. We saw a lot of fighters who might have had success similar to his, if they had come of age in his era. But the reason Jones is such an anomaly is obvious.

Counting him among the best ever P4P is ridiculous when he had advantages others didn't. How can you be the fastest guy to run the 400, if you only run the last 100m?



Yes, 168 is a joke of a "division", but that's where Jones did his best work. Jones would have never been a Middleweight in generations past - unless he turned professional as a teenager.

Honestly, he seems to look better compared to historical opponents the heavier he goes. Jones of the Ruiz fight would have given many simiarly sized contenders andchampionsof the past lots of problems.

The difference between baseball and boxing is that a great team like the Oakland A's of the late 60's, could not compete with the latest group of mercanary free agents put together these days. its never been about a pitcher finishing a game, it is about having a relief guy who throws 120 and can pitch for one inning...forgive the hyperbole.

Don't mean to pick on Oakland...but lets use football as something close to baseball, imo unlike boxing. Kenny Stabler was a mean, tough, smart SOB who could out fox you...Kenny probably had an IQ higher than average, but compare that to a kid like Manning, or one of the other franchise QB's these days: No way Stabler keeps up... no way Montana keeps up. These kids have to have photographic memories, the plays are scripted, they are being attacked by stronger, smarter, faster opponents.

Boxing is different. Fighters today are not better. You can sit down with a piece of paper and look at film and see all the things Robinson could do, as compared to Mayweather.

I don't think Jones had the chin to compete with the light heavies. Tunney would time him. Foster would catch him and hit harder than Tarver. See thats the thing: Fighters who can do it all, and some of it really well are completely different than fighters who can do a few things... As much as I hate to say it, Toney might be an example of this... he could counter the best of them, and you can't counter Jones...too fast. Well, if that had been Toney's role model, Archie Moore, Moore would try to time Roy. Toney couldn't do this.

[travestyny]

Yup. Definitely trying way too hard.

Aww, you mad that your Ray Robinson was a weight bully was proven to be a lie

Any more lies you want to start about all time great black fighters?


Yup, definitely trying too hard. They misinformed you at those klan rallies :P



Still want to see those Greb videos so we can see how he passes your #1 criteria, that being the eye test. When you get the balls to post up his videos so you can tell me how he passes the eye test, just let me know. I have a feeling I'll be waiting a longggggg time

[Zaroku]

Aww, you mad that your Ray Robinson was a weight bully was proven to be a lie

Any more lies you want to start about all time great black fighters?


Yup, definitely trying too hard. They misinformed you at those klan rallies :P



Still want to see those Greb videos so we can see how he passes your #1 criteria, that being the eye test. When you get the balls to post up his videos so you can tell me how he passes the eye test, just let me know. I have a feeling I'll be waiting a longggggg time

you do realize that many great fighters, yes, many black fighters, did not capture the love of writers, or promoters.... you know like me,, there is no racism in boxing.. the best man always wins..

boxing is always fair, and now, you gotta be hyped, hype yourself,

dudes call me crazy, but the do not know anything... when i was in La, i used to go to parties, where dudes would freestyle. wicked sick, they had their own, studios, and refused to bend that knee, and get knighted by rec execs..

these guys will always be unknown, but they are awesome..

bending that knee, saying what they tell you to say, that is considered making it in america.

we go back years, you and I.. ray robinson, today, if he were fighting, pac, floyd, charlos, would ask themselves.. who is this smiling, machine... who is whopping me up bad...

manny,, yes even manny, would know he was out classed.. his nut hugging fans,, would never get it, and make slow motion videos.. while speaking tagalog, and eating lumpia, etc.

[QueensburyRules]

The difference between baseball and boxing is that a great team like the Oakland A's of the late 60's, could not compete with the latest group of mercanary free agents put together these days. its never been about a pitcher finishing a game, it is about having a relief guy who throws 120 and can pitch for one inning...forgive the hyperbole.

Don't mean to pick on Oakland...but lets use football as something close to baseball, imo unlike boxing. Kenny Stabler was a mean, tough, smart SOB who could out fox you...Kenny probably had an IQ higher than average, but compare that to a kid like Manning, or one of the other franchise QB's these days: No way Stabler keeps up... no way Montana keeps up. These kids have to have photographic memories, the plays are scripted, they are being attacked by stronger, smarter, faster opponents.

Boxing is different. Fighters today are not better. You can sit down with a piece of paper and look at film and see all the things Robinson could do, as compared to Mayweather.

I don't think Jones had the chin to compete with the light heavies. Tunney would time him. Foster would catch him and hit harder than Tarver. See thats the thing: Fighters who can do it all, and some of it really well are completely different than fighters who can do a few things... As much as I hate to say it, Toney might be an example of this... he could counter the best of them, and you can't counter Jones...too fast. Well, if that had been Toney's role model, Archie Moore, Moore would try to time Roy. Toney couldn't do this.

- -Different rules in different eras.

How many heavies could beat Tom Cribb under his era and conditions?

Same goes for Babe, Gehrig, and Ted Williams in baseball.

That most here lack historical context is a problem. They might not even be exposed to boxing or baseball in today's world full of a boggling array of career options.

Even diagnosed ADD to be put on strong drugs, esp Babe!!!

[travestyny]

you do realize that many great fighters, yes, many black fighters, did not capture the love of writers, or promoters.... you know like me,, there is no racism in boxing.. the best man always wins..

boxing is always fair, and now, you gotta be hyped, hype yourself,

dudes call me crazy, but the do not know anything... when i was in La, i used to go to parties, where dudes would freestyle. wicked sick, they had their own, studios, and refused to bend that knee, and get knighted by rec execs..

these guys will always be unknown, but they are awesome..

bending that knee, saying what they tell you to say, that is considered making it in america.

we go back years, you and I.. ray robinson, today, if he were fighting, pac, floyd, charlos, would ask themselves.. who is this smiling, machine... who is whopping me up bad...

manny,, yes even manny, would know he was out classed.. his nut hugging fans,, would never get it, and make slow motion videos.. while speaking tagalog, and eating lumpia, etc.

I definitely agree, Big Z. I don't think any of those guys takes out a prime Ray Robinson!

[Zaroku]

I definitely agree, Big Z. I don't think any of those guys takes out a prime Ray Robinson!

i am unworthy to speak his name.. my old old uncles say, with catarracks in their eyes.. he is the greatest..