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Dead people, dont hit back 
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Steriods are part of the picture, whether we like it or not... Sometimes the best way to deal with a rabbit hole is to just keep going... We are finding out that steriod use has limits... yeah they make you stronger, they help one rebound, but maybe there is a nice natural limit that will help one to move onto the next process of biological augmentation.
You just never get too far by taking something that is far reaching and censuring it... Genies don't go back into bottles. And when various government agencies tell grown men, competing for a special life, what they can and cannot do to their bodies, that just never will get us very far.
Regarding your brother; I love baseball and will forever have a sweet spot for natural hitters, Williams and Carew for example. But at the end of the day the numbers tell us that Bonds was indeed a great hitter. And your brother knows that pitchers are better. Catfish Hunter, Sparky Lyle, two great pitchers who couldn't break 95 miles an hour... There are pitchers in High School who throw harder! Catfish and Lyle were finesse pitchers, but they would not get by today on hitters like Bonds.
Regarding Roy: You have to be consistent. You cannot create circumstances, where some guys success is explained and others are not. All fighters deal with the use of certain enhancements, skills, favorable events, unfavorable events, etc.
When I said 160 for Roy i indicated i was using the old orthodox 8 weight classes. This to me a way to compare great fighters with a consistent measure. So, Roy was not going to beat up light heavies (175) as compared to Middle weights (160) I am not considering 168 a traditional weight class because it is not.Comment
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The pitchers are better to a point. They're better at shooting fire. But how many guys can finish a game? The ball is also designed to hit further. They even practice with balls similar to more traditional baseballs and the difference in distance is significant.
It's not unlike Boxing, which has generally become safer, but which much better supports being explosive. Roy is exemplar of that.
In the pre-PEDs era, with 15 rounds of fighting, we didn't see a Roy Jones, Jr. We saw a lot of fighters who might have had success similar to his, if they had come of age in his era. But the reason Jones is such an anomaly is obvious.
Counting him among the best ever P4P is ridiculous when he had advantages others didn't. How can you be the fastest guy to run the 400, if you only run the last 100m?
Yes, 168 is a joke of a "division", but that's where Jones did his best work. Jones would have never been a Middleweight in generations past - unless he turned professional as a teenager.
Honestly, he seems to look better compared to historical opponents the heavier he goes. Jones of the Ruiz fight would have given many simiarly sized contenders andchampionsof the past lots of problems.Comment
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So everyone he fought was smaller than him?
You need to go back and do some research, homie. Tell us what you find out about Turpin, Graziano, Olsen, and LaMotta.
Were they all smaller than him?
If I'm rtar.ded, that must make you brain dead being that I've kicked you around here for fun just about every time we've discussed anything, you buffoon
Nah, it's not re.tarded to claim Ray Robinson was the Goat
I know his skin tone bothers you. Speaking of re.tarded....Lomachenko already as an all time great and ranked ahead of Ray Robinson? Number 3 all time according to you, is it?
Yea, you're dumb as bricks and your hatred for those with darker skin than you has clearly melted your brain Dumbest shlt I've ever seen here.
Almost as dumb as Ali being ranked lower than Dempsey. By another buffoon....oh, that's right. That would be YOU
Last edited by travestyny; 11-29-2019, 08:39 AM.Comment
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Yup, Jake LaMotta was bigger. Jake bum-fights LaMotta. Not only was LaMotta the ONLY bigger man he faced. Jake LaMotta is the best name on his ledger - unless you consider it to be Bobo Olson.
Jake LaMotta and Bobo Olson... that's all it takes to make Ray GOAT!?!?!?
I guess now a days we're applying quotas to Boxing, too? Sorry, Mr. Canzoneri, you were better and braver than Ray Robinson, but to satisfy nut-jobs like Auntie T, we need to slot him above you. They don't have anything else going for them in life, I'm sure you'll understand.
If you're not a complete ass clown (we know you are, but let's live in your world of fantasy for just a moment), please educate us using facts:
- Please, show me what impresses you more about Ray's record than Greb or Duran's.
- Show me what Robinson does that makes him better than Jofre or Lomachenko? Everyone who knows Boxing agrees they're much better on film. But some how, you know better.
So, please, enlighten us!Last edited by Rusty Tromboni; 11-29-2019, 10:37 AM.Comment
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No problem.
https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/9625
No problem.
Come back and tell us what you learned. If you haven't learned your lesson, then I won't be surprised. Anyone who ranks Lomachhenko as all time #3 and Ali worse than a 20th ranked Dempsey is easily the biggest idiot this forum has ever seen.
By the way, show us how Greb passes your eye test. Post those videos so we can see how great your #1 was.Comment
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LMAO. Change your mind????????? Are you kidding me?
Dude. You have Lomachenko as #3 all time.
You have Dempsey at #20, and ALI somewhere below that.
You think Jackson ducked Sullivan.
You actually wondered out loud, "If Black fighters were so good, why wasn't there a black heavyweight champion until Jack Johnson"
And I won't go into details about other comments that got you banned for racism here.
Dude, you're pathetic. Go watch the documentary and enlighten yourself.
Then come back with those Greb videos so we can discuss how he passes your eye test, hmm?
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Ohh wow! Look out Barry *****! Auntie T is in the running for her own Nobel Prize!
Look at you! So intelligent. So well-spoken. So persuasive. I'd love to hear you deliver a sermon.
This is really incredible stuff! I am amazed! You were able to use a search engine to bring Ray's BoxRec profile! Did you do that all by yourself!? What an accomplishment!
I'll throw you a bone and look through it:
OK, so we see at Welterweight beating up on Lightweights. Then, when he grows out of his Welterweight frame, we see a Middleweight beating up on Welterweights. Once he becomes a Middleweight things level out. He still wins more often than not, but he drops fights to fighters who are clearly not ATGs. Oh, and he got hot flashes against Maxim.
Not sure what I am supposed to be blown away by. Clearly an exceptional fighter, but just as clearly not the best. Maybe the best matched/managed?
Sweet. A bigger man beating up on smaller, usually much out-matched, men.
He drops his hands too much - very easy to hit.
He throws wide.
When he can't figure an opponent out, he uses his charisma and volume. But it's far from effeicient or surgical.
I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to fight like this.
It's like a cross between Ike Williams and Tommy Hearns, more mobile than both, though.
As if I haven't answered this numerous times - at least once in this thread alone.
Tell me how Ray - who was bigger than Greb - wins more than 5 rounds against Loughran.
Maxim was too much for him. Little Jakie LaMotta'sjab gave him problems. Turpin's refusal to stand there and be hit gave Ray FITS.
So how does he fair against a guy who's the same size as himself(if not a little bigger), and a better Boxer than anyone else he ever fought?
He wouldn't beat Walker, let alone claim half the scalps Greb claimed at Light Heavyweight.Last edited by Rusty Tromboni; 11-29-2019, 11:29 AM.Comment
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