How would Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano fare against modern Heavies?

[Ivich]

Actually in order to time the jab Schmelling had to have some indication of the right...Hence, it had to be telegraphed in some fashion. Schmelling was not concerned about being hit with the jab... So he had to have some indication of when Louis was going to throw the right to avoid being hit with it.

It doesn't take a tremendous amount of film to see a lazy jab to return fire upon and it would not take a major adjustment for louis to pull the jab back... Schmelling had to have a way to avoid the right cross... That was what he managed and yes Louis was incredible with his form and execution BUT we all give subtle indications, if studied long enough....

This is absolute rubbish,damage limitation of the most pathetically blatant kind. You were exposed in all your ignorance with your comments there!
I'll let you into a secret ,but its a secret only to you, everyone and his Granny who knows anything about the mechanics,and history of boxing knows that Schmeling when watching Louis on film spotted that he did not return his jab to the guard position after throwing it.Max was a great right hand counter puncher so this was meat and drink to him.Jack Johnson also noticed this flaw in Louis' stance.
Louis had as near a technically a perfect right cross as any fighter who ever laced them up ,he rarely missed target when he threw it and he never telegraphed it! Go to the back of the class,no on second thoughts, go right out the door and come back next year!

[billeau2]

This is absolute rubbish,damage limitation of the most pathetically blatant kind. You were exposed in all your ignorance with your comments there!
I'll let you into a secret ,but its a secret only to you, everyone and his granny who knows anything about the mechanics,and history of boxing knows that Schmeling when watching Louis on film spotted that he did not return his jab to the guard position after throwing it.Max was a great right hand counter puncher so this was meat and drink to him.Jack Johnson also noticed this flaw in Louis' stance.
Louis had as near a technically a perfect right cross as any fighter who ever laced them up ,he rarely missed target when he threw it and he never telegraphed it! Go to the back of the class,no on second thoughts, go right out the door and come back next year!

You wish... By the way some say it was a left hook... to be clear grand poo pa.

http://www.johnrosengren.net/fists

The point is schmelling had to be able to avoid the right... For him to get into a situation where he could catch Louis being careless... Telegraphing is relative. Dempsey and Louis were as near to perfect as one can be (possibly) but there is no such thing as total perfection that way. Thats why fighters study film to find even the slightest indications...

Sorry poo pa, I know you thought you had something I know all about what others said about the fight, but I have my own opinions. I don't have to agree and I can always give a basis for those opinions... Sorry ole chap.

Now go tell us how Marciano mugged people unlike other fighters! idiot

[edgarg]

Muhammad ali said he had trouble with rocky in their simulated fight. And rocky was 50 something I believe. If that tells you anything.

He was more like 40 something, He was killed aged 46. I think Ali's problem was that he had to pull his punches and allow Rocky to look better than he was. Rovky kept being annoyed that Ali ruffled his hairpiece. It was easy to see that Rocky was as fat as a porker. and his action was speeded up by cameras.

It was just a sales gimmick after all. \if he felt he couldn't do anything aIinst Patterson, he certainly couldn't against Ali.

The week after giving a RING interview that he would be fighting a few more years, he suddenly retired. Patterson won the title from Moore 5 months later.

[edgarg]

It tells me Marciano is underrated by most fight fans today. i mean look at Ezzard Charles. After fighting Marciano he goes from being a winning fighter to a losing fighter.
That first fight with Marciano that went the distance. Charles got beat up real bad. AND EZZARD CHARLES IS AN ALL TIME GREAT. Ezzard Charles was a much more talented boxer then Marciano. For those who say its cause Ezzard was to old. Marciano was to old to. Marciano started he was 25 started old. Thats old for a heavy. Ezzard still went from being a winning fighter before he ever fought Marciano.
To being a losing fighter
Anytime a guy with no where near the skill of Ezzard Charles can do that to a guy with Charles skill.
Marciano can fight. 8 months in training camp. Marciano Go hard every minute every round

You're comparing apples to oranges. The guy was 33 and already had nearly 100 fights. He was only a shadow of his former career light-heavy best . He lost 2 of his previous 4 before Rocky. Don't try to gull us about it. Ezz was a very good fighter but fighting heavys, he had to do it the HARD way. It depleted him., He was very much on the downgrade when he fought Rocky. Or else Rocky wouldn't have fought him then.

Out of Ezz's first 100 fights less than 20 ended before rd. 5, and most of them went the distance or he won in a later rd. He was well used up. Only his quality carried him through.

They both were good fights because Ezz had deteriorated down to Rocky's top level. Just like all the other old guys he's fought , who had great PAST reputations but had been washed up as TOP fighters before Rocky got them. Poor Joe Louis had to pulled out of a mental home, as his son later related. He used to hide under the table with the cloth pulled down . and worse.

[edgarg]

If he can get to 195 why doesnt he gain 10 more pounds fight as a heavy. Why doesnt triple G dehydrate 20 pounds fight as a junior welterweight.. Triple G hes around tall as Marciano he can dehydrate 20 lbs easily? right
Welterweight James Vick is 6'3 like Ramirez. Why doesnt Ramirez dehydrate 35 pounds fight as welterweight. If Vick can be a welterweight at 6 feet 3 inches whats stopping Ramirez. You see the fallacy of your statement

Ramirez even if he has hydrates 5 more pounds from 195 and weighs a heavyweights weight of 200 and over. is still not a heavyweight but really a puffed up light heavyweight.. Where as Marciano was never a super middleweight or a light heavyweight

Zarate was 5'10" and a bantamweight. It's all to do with muscle density and skeletal density/weight. Also frame shape. A deep chest and broad shoulders carry more muscle. Bird bones are very light, no matter how tall. Also metabolism has an effect.

Laszlo Papp was the terror of the middleweights. Watch his fights. He was only 5'5".

Sam Langford was only 5'7" but was built like a tank. Many other examples. Tommy Burns was 5'7" but had long arms and a real KO punch.

[edgarg]

Fury is very talented. He is also old school in that he was trained up as a youngster to get all the right habits...the things that need to be scrubbed, like when Louis telegraphed his right and Shmelling was able to beat him.

If we are talking Fury against Marciano I think Fury could win that fight.

Louis did NOT telegraph his right. No wa. !! it was like a cannon shell. Jack Johnson sad that he noticed that Louis, after delivering a left jab would bring it back lower, and a sudden right cross could get him. THAT's exactly what Schmeling did.

[edgarg]

Exactly. Marciano never had to cut weight. Anyone who can really party hard knows how much weight u can lose. 175 could be too brutal to make but its not like he was ever as peeled as people get today.

Marciano would be over 200 before training camp. He was squat, put on weight easily, loved Italian food and showed it. He trained like a demon, maybe 5-6 months for a fight. He didn't have a boxer's figure, he had a bartenders shape. Short legs, short arms, long body. like a bowling skittle in a way.

[edgarg]

So many of these old guys still believing a 5'10 180 pound guy like Rocky Marciano could beat modern sized and modern skilled heavyweights. It cracks me up. The last time there was a legit sub 200 pound heavyweight champion was back in the early 1960's when Floyd Patterson was champion. If 5'10 180 pound guys could beat modern sized guys then why hasn't one of these guys appeared since Marciano?

Joe Louis was cute for his era. Most of the guys he fought were small. The bigger ones like Prime Carnera, Buddy Baer, and Abe Simon weren't skilled by modern standards. Even somebody as unskilled as Deontay Wilder is far more talented, athletic, and skilled than anybody Joe Louis fought. If 6'0 160 to 170 pound light punching Billy Conn could hurt Joe Louis then Wilder, Joshua, ect would destroy him. Not to mention Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Lennox Lewis, ect. For those who will say but these guys were hurt or knocked down. Sure they were. But they weren't knocked down or hurt by 160 pound guys.

Oh and here is a link to the Ted Lowry vs Marciano fight. Ted Lowry a guy who had a career record of 70-68 and weighed between 160-180 pound was able to beat Marciano around the ring and had to hold back to avoid knocking Marciano. This is why there are no 180 pound heavyweight champions anymore.

Finally do you remember Bob Foster the light heavyweight "great". He was 6'3 180. He was considered a hard puncher fighting guys his own size. What happened when he moved up faced even smaller modern heavyweights like Joe Frazier? His punching power was ineffective and he was slaughtered in 2 rounds. The thing is Foster had skills. Marciano had no skill and this is what would of happened to him if he had to face the David Tua, Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Lennox Lewis, Rid**** Bowe, Wladimir Klitschko ect. He would be destroyed. I know this may hurt some of you. But there are weight classes for a reason.

I remember Foster. 6'3". He had the punch, but it was a wild sweeping left hook. It worked great against lighter guys who he outsized, and also had very long arms, nearly an 80" reach. But Forster had NO chin, and couldn't take a heavyweight punch.

[Blond Beast]

Marciano would be over 200 before training camp. He was squat, put on weight easily, loved Italian food and showed it. He trained like a demon, maybe 5-6 months for a fight. He didn't have a boxer's figure, he had a bartenders shape. Short legs, short arms, long body. like a bowling skittle in a way.

I’d love to have been able to stand next to all my favourite fighters in top shape, get a true measure of them. Obviously height, weight, physiques aren’t everything in a fighter. Still it’d be fun to see who is taller, longer reach, fists, etc.
When I look up pics of Marciano I can’t get over how big his head looks to me.
I think it’s too bad that we can’t even get a fighters height legit measured in front of the fans, or reach for that matter. I mean sometimes we get a different listing for each fight. Millions are bet on these fights. Like is Canelo 5’9” or 5’8”? Some people say Mike Tyson was only 5’10”, Larry Merchant says he saw him measured at 5’11.5” with his own eyes, for whatever that is worth. ( I know we shrink as we get older )
I’ve been laser measured, measured myself, measured by others and it’s been the same. I never exaggerate it. So many guys have told me I must be taller than that cause im taller than they are. I’m shorter than my brothers and cousins, but I get a lot of hand me downs that way.
I have a size 12 shoe which always seems to be available thankfully. Rest of the family not so lucky. My brother just told me about a buddy of his who is just a naturally big jacked guy. Has size 17 shoes. Has to order everything, costs him way more. I think Tyson had size 13.5 shoes.

I know I’m getting long winded here but did anyone else think it was an embarrassment that Serrano’s team lets her wear air Jordan’s in the ring? They must be three times the weight of a boxing shoe, and she stumbled around all night in her feet vs Taylor. I don’t care if you like Air Jordan’s guess what every other person on earth does also. Nothing original about collecting them to the point you do yourself a disservice by wearing them in a boxing ring. Like would you wear heavier gloves for a fashion statement? Ridiculous. You move your feet all night. Was a close fight sure. Still her feet looked slow and sloppy as hell all night and a pair of basketball shoes don’t help things.

[JAB5239]

I’d love to have been able to stand next to all my favourite fighters in top shape, get a true measure of them. Obviously height, weight, physiques aren’t everything in a fighter. Still it’d be fun to see who is taller, longer reach, fists, etc.
When I look up pics of Marciano I can’t get over how big his head looks to me.
I think it’s too bad that we can’t even get a fighters height legit measured in front of the fans, or reach for that matter. I mean sometimes we get a different listing for each fight. Millions are bet on these fights. Like is Canelo 5’9” or 5’8”? Some people say Mike Tyson was only 5’10”, Larry Merchant says he saw him measured at 5’11.5” with his own eyes, for whatever that is worth. ( I know we shrink as we get older )
I’ve been laser measured, measured myself, measured by others and it’s been the same. I never exaggerate it. So many guys have told me I must be taller than that cause im taller than they are. I’m shorter than my brothers and cousins, but I get a lot of hand me downs that way.
I have a size 12 shoe which always seems to be available thankfully. Rest of the family not so lucky. My brother just told me about a buddy of his who is just a naturally big jacked guy. Has size 17 shoes. Has to order everything, costs him way more. I think Tyson had size 13.5 shoes.

I know I’m getting long winded here but did anyone else think it was an embarrassment that Serrano’s team lets her wear air Jordan’s in the ring? They must be three times the weight of a boxing shoe, and she stumbled around all night in her feet vs Taylor. I don’t care if you like Air Jordan’s guess what every other person on earth does also. Nothing original about collecting them to the point you do yourself a disservice by wearing them in a boxing ring. Like would you wear heavier gloves for a fashion statement? Ridiculous. You move your feet all night. Was a close fight sure. Still her feet looked slow and sloppy as hell all night and a pair of basketball shoes don’t help things.

Vinny Pazienza told me, a d this was thru Facebook messages that Tysom wasn't more than 6'10" when o commented on his height. He did say he was built like a fire hydrant though.