Do you hold Ali's 5 losses against his legacy?

[Taha93]

Great post

No, you are pulling this out of your ass. Linking to 2 articles by nobodies who think that a particular decision could have gone the other way 30 years ago is nothing. Let's break it down.

No one suggested that Ali dominated Jones. The fight was close. Yet all 3 judges scored it for Ali (Clay, at the time). What isn't in dispute is that Ali won the last two rounds to pull it out. Jones had it and Ali took it away from him. API had it Jones, UPI had it Clay.

The fight against Young wasn't even close if the ref had scored it properly. Young kept sticking his head outside the ropes which is a knockdown by rules but it was only called once. Here's an article the next day about the fight rather than some retcon 30 years later: https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...my+young&hl=en

As for Norton, again it was close. Ali didn't think he won it but again it was a UD and the API also had Ali winning.

Ali won a lot of close fights. He was a master of the end-of-round flurry and he won a lot of fights late, especially later in his career. But rather than just say Ali somehow pulled out the close decisions, you want to make it some kind of (unfounded) grand conspiracy with no proof whatsoever. I just love how you think "The Man" wanted a Nation of Islam, Christianity-rejecting, draft-dodging black man as their champion.

Nothing can be said better.

[DreamFighter]

--- Ali came back at age 28.

yeh but it was post a three year break nevertheless, that is SOME detriment. You have to bear in mind that Ali never knew he would be back for sure. Effectively it was the end of his boxing career.

There is a vast different between being a gym rat and an elite athlete, but you already kwno this.

You have to try and look at it from the point of view of THEN, not with hindsight.

When I was 28 I was invincible in spite of serious motorcycle injuries.

yeh and you would have koed Lennox Lewis too. missed opportunity mate.

ali wasnt 28 for either bout either, thats presumably why he wasnt invincible?

Frazier was half blind with life threatening blood pressure problems and couldn't get licensed today,

in your last sentence you just suggested the other guy wasnt physically right for making his appraisal, and then you wrote this about THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD.

ok.

Time to get with the program.

Amen to that.

[QueensburyRules]

--- Ali was 28 when went into a standard training camp and was somewhat gifted with a 2rd cut tko over Quarry.

Ali got more quick cut stoppages than anyone back then, but no matter, it was an easy welcoming warmup.

A short rest and camp later, he had a grueling 15 rds against Bonavena who had the awkward physicality that always troubled Ali to work him harder than he liked.

See Rudy Lubbers as a glaring example.

You say I'm not an elite athlete, yet know nothing of me. I was routinely posting TDF prologue speeds in the rugged matching terrain of my home town.

Sans any training whatsoever in track or running, at age 29 on a dare with a bet, I ran a 10k in 45 min. I can guarantee I could step in without training at the end of Alis training camp and beat him too.

I know a guy who was a regular spar for Ali, and he held another job and never turned pro.

As a kid, Ali spoke to us kids and was quite impressive, but he and his fans hung on too long beyond any common sense.

[billeau2]

Does the fact he has 5 losses hurt his claim as the undisputed GOAT or is he one of the few or only fighters who's greatness can cause that to be overlooked?

Not in the slightest.

[DreamFighter]

--- Ali was 28 when went into a standard training camp and was somewhat gifted with a 2rd cut tko over Quarry.

Ali got more quick cut stoppages than anyone back then, but no matter, it was an easy welcoming warmup.

A short rest and camp later, he had a grueling 15 rds against Bonavena who had the awkward physicality that always troubled Ali to work him harder than he liked.

See Rudy Lubbers as a glaring example.

You say I'm not an elite athlete, yet know nothing of me. I was routinely posting TDF prologue speeds in the rugged matching terrain of my home town.

Sans any training whatsoever in track or running, at age 29 on a dare with a bet, I ran a 10k in 45 min. I can guarantee I could step in without training at the end of Alis training camp and beat him too.

I know a guy who was a regular spar for Ali, and he held another job and never turned pro.

As a kid, Ali spoke to us kids and was quite impressive, but he and his fans hung on too long beyond any common sense.

sparring is not pro fighting.

lot of top professionals ease off in sparring and "friendlies" across all sports but when Saturday comes they continue to do what noone else does. WHilst sparring partners remain sparring partners.

[QueensburyRules]

sparring is not pro fighting.

lot of top professionals ease off in sparring and "friendlies" across all sports but when Saturday comes they continue to do what noone else does. WHilst sparring partners remain sparring partners.

--- Big DUH moment for you.

And heavy bags and sit-ups ain't no Saturday nite specials neither.

Nor you a Rudy Lubbers, but Ali's spar coulda been.

[DreamFighter]

--- Big DUH moment for you.

And heavy bags and sit-ups ain't no Saturday nite specials neither.

Nor you a Rudy Lubbers, but Ali's spar coulda been.

You've not actually said what you are objecting to ikn my post, so its impossible for me to reply. I dont know if that was your intent.

either provide a counter or continue to clown around, no big deal for me either way.

[Marchegiano]

Of course I do. Counting only how high a man's highs are is biased.

[PRINCEKOOL]

He would of not been medical fit to fight in today's game, after 1978 in my opinion. It was incredible, INCREDIBLE that Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick could not stop or knock him out! Probably goes to show how good Muhammad Ali was, he was a fighter who fought at the level of his opponents at times or just did a enough during the 1970's 'Well known fact that he could be a lazy trainer, needed somebody to put fear into him in order to really leave no stone upturned' very few fighters really intimidated him though, very self assured and certain man at times.

[Granath]

So you just typed five paragraphs of biased excuses to fit your narrative. No doubt your an alt on here, and I suspect I know who. You're too dense to listen to valid reasons why the networks, writers, promoters, mob, and other boxing en****** would want push Ali to the forefront. He resurrected the sport during the 1960s while it was struggling. You are hung up on this ****** thing, but that didn't come along until the turbulent late 60s/70s.

He got gifts during his career because he was the money fighter. You seem to think there is no corruption in boxing and that 1+1 always equals 2, and that's not the case in boxing.

Yet many of your examples were post-religious conversion...you're not very good at this are you? This is like shooting fish in a barrel. But go on with your grand conspiracy theories.



Who am I an alt for? Every time some 'tard doesn't like what I say they accuse me of being an alt. I'm really eager to find out who I'm the supposed alter-ego for.