Do you hold Ali's 5 losses against his legacy?

[GhostofDempsey]

No, you are pulling this out of your ass. Linking to 2 articles by nobodies who think that a particular decision could have gone the other way 30 years ago is nothing. Let's break it down.

No one suggested that Ali dominated Jones. The fight was close. Yet all 3 judges scored it for Ali (Clay, at the time). What isn't in dispute is that Ali won the last two rounds to pull it out. Jones had it and Ali took it away from him. API had it Jones, UPI had it Clay.

The fight against Young wasn't even close if the ref had scored it properly. Young kept sticking his head outside the ropes which is a knockdown by rules but it was only called once. Here's an article the next day about the fight rather than some retcon 30 years later: https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...my+young&hl=en

As for Norton, again it was close. Ali didn't think he won it but again it was a UD and the API also had Ali winning.

Ali won a lot of close fights. He was a master of the end-of-round flurry and he won a lot of fights late, especially later in his career. But rather than just say Ali somehow pulled out the close decisions, you want to make it some kind of (unfounded) grand conspiracy with no proof whatsoever. I just love how you think "The Man" wanted a Nation of Islam, Christianity-rejecting, draft-dodging black man as their champion.

So you just typed five paragraphs of biased excuses to fit your narrative. No doubt your an alt on here, and I suspect I know who. You're too dense to listen to valid reasons why the networks, writers, promoters, mob, and other boxing en****** would want push Ali to the forefront. He resurrected the sport during the 1960s while it was struggling. You are hung up on this ****** thing, but that didn't come along until the turbulent late 60s/70s.

He got gifts during his career because he was the money fighter. You seem to think there is no corruption in boxing and that 1+1 always equals 2, and that's not the case in boxing.

[phallus]

the one to frazier is the definitive one, the Norton one proved to be a really bad matchup for alis style. Since they were both avenged, its hard to pick at him about them, the Norton one is the most devaluing since he wasnt able to adjust to Ken dominantly in any of their bouts.

I think only a fool would hold his three losses during his Parkinsonians slide against him.

--- To properly rate Ali, we have to separate with merciless eyes the boxer from the legend.

Ali starts a terrible slide after Foreman from a boxing standpoint. He starts eating punches like candy as his KO ratio drops. He just can't keep guys off and ropadope is good strategy for certain situations, but not for taking beatings for most of 15 rds.


As to Ali the boxer, are we to also fluff his record with dubious results by the suits and his team who only wanted to milk every oz from their cash cow before releasing him as a broken whisper of a great fighter needing caretakers for most of the rest of his life?

.no..

3 losses came after Ali was totally shot

1 loss came from prime HOF norton

1 loss came from a prime ATG Frazier


I got more respect for guys like Ali, Oscar, etc that fought everyone available, took some Losses but never tried to dodge or “marinade” a fight/opponent

i don't think losses do anything to his legacy but i do think ali shouldn't have fought after 1978

[HOUDINI563]

Ghost is astonishing ignorant. How biased or ****** can a person be?

[HOUDINI563]

Name the predominant crowd that scored the second Ali Chavalo fight for George. He only won a few rounds of that very one sided bout.

[rightsideup]

the one to frazier is the definitive one, the Norton one proved to be a really bad matchup for alis style. Since they were both avenged, its hard to pick at him about them, the Norton one is the most devaluing since he wasnt able to adjust to Ken dominantly in any of their bouts.

I think only a fool would hold his three losses during his Parkinsonians slide against him.

i think both norton and frazier were bad matchups for his style.

[HOUDINI563]

Neither Norton or Frazier fought prime Ali. All these bouts came after his exile from the sport.

[HOUDINI563]

Also both Liston 1 and 2 were investigated and no evidence of a fix was found.

Ali scored multiple knockdowns over Young as he kept trying to leave the ring when cornered.

I attended Ali-Norton 3 and as an Ali hater gave it to Norton by one point. Today I typically score the fight for Ali by one point. The last round being pivotal. This was a chess match live in person and this mimics Mercante’s comments that after most rounds he had difficulty determining who won they were so close. Don’t forget the decision was unanimous. Also a panel of boxing experts scored the bout several weeks later in live tv (cbs). A tabulation of all scorecards revealed..........A draw. Again a very close fight b

[QueensburyRules]

Neither Norton or Frazier fought prime Ali. All these bouts came after his exile from the sport.

--- Ali came back at age 28.

When I was 28 I was invincible in spite of serious motorcycle injuries.

Ali was a gym rat and in his travels always found a gym to spar in and spread his gospel.

I suggest physiologically you ain't genetically endowed to understand how an A grade physical specimen works. You make it sound like Ali suddenly turned into a washerwoman during suspension.

Frazier was half blind with life threatening blood pressure problems and couldn't get licensed today, but he was genetically, mentally, and culturally endowed to overcome far more obstacles than Ali could ever conceive of.

Time to get with the program.

[OCPancho]

Well, the last two shouldn't even count.

[OCPancho]

i think both norton and frazier were bad matchups for his style.

Well, Norton wasn't in his prime either. He was an unproven commodity.