Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

[QueensburyRules]

- - JJohnson trainers carried him to his stool.

The fight date temperature I posted years back from a Key West last island weather station was mid 80s at noon. That's 90 miles from Havana. When my wife and I visited Jamaica in July, it was mid 80s in early summer.

As I've mentioned before, the thick canvas soaking up midday sun can heat up substantially over ambient air temps. At any rate, competitive title fights are strenuous even in the comfort of Vegas. Jack grew up in heat and humidity of Galveston, so it ain't like he some kinda pasty Brit Vampire first exposed to sunlight and melting like a snowcone.

[Ivich]

Jack Johnson was 37 years old and giving up 15 lbs. Add the Cuban heat and humidity and all those disadvantages start adding up after a while, especially 26 rounds in.

Even then he was still the one doing most of the whooping.

,
Yeah I'm not used to the sun.I worked in Algeria and Tunisia and have traveled all over the world New York in July,

Havana, Dominican Republic twice, Thailand 5 times Cambodia ,Vietnam Italy and Spain numerous times,Portugal, Morocco,Turkey 3 times,Greece 4 times,the South off France.I can't handle the heat when it gets over 115 fahrenheit.lol

Queensbury Fool when he isnt compulsively lying ,like making up stories about D,Amato training Wilt Chamberlain. Ali pulling out of their fight ,and Chamberlain

getting more money for basketball despite first hand quotes contradicting his lies. He is making up fairytale scenarios about posters .

Don't you just hate a compulsive liar.

[QueensburyRules]

,
Yeah I'm not used to the sun.I worked in Algeria and Tunisia and have traveled all over the world New York in July,

Havana, Dominican Republic twice, Thailand 5 times Cambodia ,Vietnam Italy and Spain numerous times,Portugal, Morocco,Turkey 3 times,Greece 4 times,the South off France.I can't handle the heat when it gets over 115 fahrenheit.lol

Queensbury Fool when he isnt compulsively lying ,like making up stories about D,Amato training Wilt Chamberlain. Ali pulling out of their fight ,and Chamberlain

getting more money for basketball despite first hand quotes contradicting his lies. He is making up fairytale scenarios about posters .

Don't you just hate a compulsive liar.

- - I'm a lover of of the usual boxing nincompoops who populate these forums who provide all the comedy.

[Dr. Z]

,
Yeah I'm not used to the sun.I worked in Algeria and Tunisia and have traveled all over the world New York in July,

Havana, Dominican Republic twice, Thailand 5 times Cambodia ,Vietnam Italy and Spain numerous times,Portugal, Morocco,Turkey 3 times,Greece 4 times,the South off France.I can't handle the heat when it gets over 115 fahrenheit.lol

Queensbury Fool when he isnt compulsively lying ,like making up stories about D,Amato training Wilt Chamberlain. Ali pulling out of their fight ,and Chamberlain

getting more money for basketball despite first hand quotes contradicting his lies. He is making up fairytale scenarios about posters .

Don't you just hate a compulsive liar.

How hot was it in April in the Caribbean? Check the weather archives. 100 degree heat in April is total fabrication!

Not 115 degree heat, does not get happen is Cuba let alone in April. How hot was is again? You're intellectually dishonest.

[Ivich]

,
Yeah I'm not used to the sun.I worked in Algeria and Tunisia and have traveled all over the world New York in July,

Havana, Dominican Republic twice, Thailand 5 times Cambodia ,Vietnam Italy and Spain numerous times,Portugal, Morocco,Turkey 3 times,Greece 4 times,the South off France.I can't handle the heat when it gets over 115 fahrenheit.lol

Queensbury Fool when he isnt compulsively lying ,like making up stories about D,Amato training Wilt Chamberlain. Ali pulling out of their fight ,and Chamberlain

getting more money for basketball despite first hand quotes contradicting his lies. He is making up fairytale scenarios about posters .

Don't you just hate a compulsive liar.

Nowhere have I said the temperature in Havana is 115 or 100 degrees at any time.
I am not responsible for the illiteracy of the MORON who thinks I have.

[Incapable]

- - I'm a lover of of the usual boxing nincompoops who populate these forums who provide all the comedy.

So Am I.. Thats why I like to read your posts!!

[JAB5239]

So Am I.. Thats why I like to read your posts!!

........

[Ivich]

I've adressed the points on other forums literally dozens of times but haters like you and G O Dempsey don't want to hear it.You both just want to unload your venom on Johnson
Now I'll answer your lies, not for you two bigots but for anyone who might be interested in the real facts.
Fact. Neither Johnson or O Brien [ not O Brein] weighed in for their 6rds no decision bout.
This was Johnson's 1 st defence of his title,in the 5 months since winning his ttile Johnson had been partying hard.. Johnson knowing O Brien had no punch and that therefore he was in no danger of losing his title in a 6 rounds no decision bout, took the opportunity to come in overweight and untrained.He was at a party the night before the fight.Entering the ring he was described as fat.O Brien as in terrific shape.
Any genuine posters wishing to know details can pm me.You two clowns ignore facts so there is no point in presenting them to you.Here is the Box Rec brief summary.

"Three or four times during the mix-ups, O'Brien was roughed to the floor, and once he got tangled in the ropes." (Philadelphia Inquirer). The Philadelphia Inquirer scored for Johnson. Wilkes-Barre Times Leader had O'Brien winning three rounds, with two even, and 5th round to Johnson (same report was printed in NY Sun and Washington Herald). The NY Times ruled it a draw. Trenton Times reported that the referee stated he thought O'Brien the winner by a shade. The Sports editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer in May 23 issue wrote: "A half dozen writers, for instance, gave Johnson the credit of having won the bout, but no two of them agreed as to the distance by which he won, and if you read all these accounts you must have come to the conclusion that he won at any distance from a whisker to a city block. And it was the same with the able gentlemen who espoused the O'Brien cause. Some declared that he won all the way, and that but for his willingness to take the initiative there would have been no milling at all, while others gave him the decision solely for the splendid showing he made against such a tremendous physical handicap." The Philadelphia Item stated that O'Brien soundly out-boxed Johnson. All-in-all, it seems that the best choice would be to show it as a draw. It must be borne in mind that
1.Johnson was boxing in O Brien's home town.
2.O Brien was white,Johnson black.
3. A clever light heavyweight, O Brien was the 175lbs champion ,can make a heavyweight look less than brilliant in a 6 rounder especially if that heavyweight has not taken the fight seriously and come in over weight ,and out of shape,[Johnson was described as breathing heavily as early as the end of the first round,]and the light heavyweight contents himself with back pedalling all night and makes no serious effort to make the fight.
Jim Jeffries was asked about the fight the next day he said he wasnt surprised that O Brien went the distance.as he was known as a clever defensive boxer and such a fighter could make any man look bad for 6 rounds.
There was no demand for another fight between the two as even the Philadelphia papers conceded.
I think this puts things into perspective.
It should be noted that O Brien could never master Tommy Burns and Johnson toyed with Burns before stopping him . O Brien was also twice ko'd by Ketchel,Johnson toyed with Ketchel before knocking him out.

Jim Johnson.
The champion was 35 years old and had not fought for a year and a half.
The champ broke a bone in his arm in the 3rd round,until then he was described as toying with his opponent.Instead of quitting as Harry Wills did with a similar injury against Battling JIm, Johnson continued to fight through the pain ,the ten rounder developed into a maul the champ fighting one handed and the challenger unable to get the better of even a one handed version of Jack Johnson.The fight was ruled a draw and nobody protested it.
The Evening World did not have a reporter present at the fight thue relied on an AP report.
Mendoza once tried to claim it was a scheduled 20 rounder that was shortened to 10 rounds to save Johnson's title but a very good poster posted the original bill showing that it was always scheduled for 10 rounds,whereupon Mendoza quietly folded his tent and crept away.
Johnson'a style would not work against bigger men such as Willard and Battling Jim?
Against Willard the 37 years old Johnson was in front after 25 round and the referee stated had he been called upon to render a decision after 20 rounds he would have unhesitatingly have awarded the fight to Johnson. So what exactly about his style didnt work against the giant?

Battling Jim couldn't beat a one armed,physically handicapped and in pain Johnson ,so Johnson's style did not let him down against his opponent did it?
Battling Jim was not of the first rank but he did gain victories over the following;
Jeannette x2
Wills
Arthur Pelkey
Bill Tate
Kid Cotton
Black Bill
Jeff Clark

He also held to a draw
Langford
McVey
Jeanette
That answers your lies.
The French Federation backtracked on their decison to strip Johnson of his title less than a month later and restored recognition to Johnson,outside of France nobody noticed and nobody cared.

You raised the issue of Free Masonry NOT ME and you did so in an attempt to discredit me.
Stating they were "devil worshippers [you ****ed up there calling them devil worriers]lol and Kid Fiddlers
When I produced a list of former masons including many Presidents,Kings ,Prime Ministers etc you realised your error and dropped it!
Now you ,who are not a Mason ,and have no inside knowledge of it, say that it is a pyramid scheme and that I am of the low order,"a worker ant"

1.Explain how this "pyramid scheme," works?
2.Which Presidents ,were"devil worshippers " and which were" kid fiddlers"?
Are
George Washington
Abraham Lincoln
FDR
LBJ
Ronald Reagan
Harry Truman
In this category?
How about other Masons?
Martin Luther King
General MaCarthur
Benjamin Franklin
Ray Robinson
Jack Dempsey
John Wayne
Mark Twain
Arnold Palmer
Ty Cobb
Which of these were *****philes?
Which of these worshipped the devil?
Careful how you answer the following two questions
As I am a Mason
Am I a devil worshipper?
Am I a *****phile?


You have no idea how the hierachy of Free Masonry works, nor have you the slightest clue as to what rank I have attained within it.
In closing you are an ignorant, bigoted fool, driven by a hate agenda who would be looked upon with pity if he were not so phobically deluded ,and poisonous.
You really need help!
Now can we return to BOXING?

Extract from and interview between La Boxe the leading French boxing publication and James W Coffroth in1911 one of the worlds leading promoters of that era.
Coffroth." Only a white challenger will draw the crowds,against Jack Johnson.
It would be impossible in the USA to match Jack Johnson against one of his black challengers,like Sam Langford or Joe Jeannette.
It would be a great fight,the two negroes would not miss the opportunity to inflict the necessary and sufficient hiding that we would be entitled to expect of them .
But the problem in that ,in America,they would not stand a chance of success.
Why?
For the only reason that the Blacks are hated in America,they would not stand a chance of success.
A fight that would put two of them face to face would not attract big crowds."

" Two Blacks, fighting for the heavyweight title would not draw flies " Tex Rickard.

"There is no coin to be made from all Black heavyweight title fight." Barney Curley.

After his 6 rds no dec with Johnson, O Brien stated," many felt I was at least his equal in cleverness, but I think over a longer distance he would beat me".

[GhostofDempsey]

Extract from and interview between La Boxe the leading French boxing publication and James W Coffroth in1911 one of the worlds leading promoters of that era.
Coffroth." Only a white challenger will draw the crowds,against Jack Johnson.
It would be impossible in the USA to match Jack Johnson against one of his black challengers,like Sam Langford or Joe Jeannette.
It would be a great fight,the two negroes would not miss the opportunity to inflict the necessary and sufficient hiding that we would be entitled to expect of them .
But the problem in that ,in America,they would not stand a chance of success.
Why?
For the only reason that the Blacks are hated in America,they would not stand a chance of success.
A fight that would put two of them face to face would not attract big crowds."

" Two Blacks, fighting for the heavyweight title would not draw flies " Tex Rickard.

"There is no coin to be made from all Black heavyweight title fight." Barney Curley.

After his 6 rds no dec with Johnson, O Brien stated," many felt I was at least his equal in cleverness, but I think over a longer distance he would beat me".

Try posting while sober next time. No one read your original post the first time, no one is reading it now. It was full of lies. Johnson was injured during the fight with Battling Jim, not prior the way you suggest. It was a cherry pick gone wrong, one for which is barely cleared $1K, while turning down $20K earlier that year to fight Jeannette. Duck, duck, quack!

[Dr. Z]

Monte Cox always praised Johnson for literally decades. He decides one day to be controversial and writes this drivel. Comparing Jones, really a lower skilled fighter, to Johnson who was classicly trained is a laugh riot.

Cox has learned a lot since. What he says now matters more than what he's been told 20 years ago. He's not a 30-35 something year old newby historian.,