Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

[Ivich]

Why do you waste you emotional energy caring what I think?

I'm sitting here with a cup of tea digesting a very nice Mediterrean Chicken dinner,expending no energy, emotional or otherwise.

.I don't care what you think.

As for you,you don't even KNOW what you think! You're a cipher, " the man who never was".LO L

[Ivich]

Hot and humid is the worst. Makes you wonder if Johnson could have won that fight had it been held somewhere better suited.

Could have changed the course of boxing history.

It was probably his bravest stand imo.Doughnuts who have never been to Havana in April think they know best, but then WGAF what they think?
Now we have the ridiculous postulation that Willard had more wear and tear on his body than Johnson,

It would be comical if it wasn't so desperately sad.

[Willie Pep 229]

I'm sitting here with a cup of tea digesting a very nice Mediterrean Chicken dinner,expending no energy, emotional or otherwise.

.I don't care what you think.

As for you,you don't even KNOW what you think! You're a cipher, " the man who never was".LO L

You sure about that ? Let's see you go a whole week without replying to my posts.

[QueensburyRules]

Hot and humid is the worst. Makes you wonder if Johnson could have won that fight had it been held somewhere better suited.

Could have changed the course of boxing history.

- - Humid, yes. Temperate, yes, like mid 80s.

Hot was 4th of July 1919 in Toledo, temperature 100+ degrees, and in essence Jess suffered a first round KO that the ref flubbed, so temperature had nothing to do with either fight.

[ShoulderRoll]

- - Humid, yes. Temperate, yes, like mid 80s.

Hot was 4th of July 1919 in Toledo, temperature 100+ degrees, and in essence Jess suffered a first round KO that the ref flubbed, so temperature had nothing to do with either fight.

Toledo was over in 3 rounds.

Nowhere near enough for heat to have an effect like it did over 26 rounds in Havana.

[QueensburyRules]

Toledo was over in 3 rounds.

Nowhere near enough for heat to have an effect like it did over 26 rounds in Havana.

- - JJ whooped by a Cowboy who didn't take up boxing until he was 29 and had considerably less experience, less than half the fights against mostly lesser competition along with some terribly ignominious losses.

They were 4 years apart in age, but the wear and tear with Willard's cowboy years rougher all around on the body than the safety first boxing style of JJohnson. If they was fighting this Saturday for JJ title, he'd be a 50-1 fav.

[ShoulderRoll]

- - JJ whooped by a Cowboy who didn't take up boxing until he was 29 and had considerably less experience, less than half the fights against mostly lesser competition along with some terribly ignominious losses.

They were 4 years apart in age, but the wear and tear with Willard's cowboy years rougher all around on the body than the safety first boxing style of JJohnson. If they was fighting this Saturday for JJ title, he'd be a 50-1 fav.

Jack Johnson was 37 years old and giving up 15 lbs. Add the Cuban heat and humidity and all those disadvantages start adding up after a while, especially 26 rounds in.

Even then he was still the one doing most of the whooping.

[Dr. Z]

Toledo was over in 3 rounds.

Nowhere near enough for heat to have an effect like it did over 26 rounds in Havana.

This is another boxing myth. Hot in April, check the weather arrives in Havana. It rarely gets above 90 in the summer months. This is April. It's moderate and most likely in the low 80's during April in Havana. A nice day. I don't dispute the sun was out.

Willard on film takes control in the later rounds and Johnson doubles over for a body shot on film the round before the knock out. You can see the end coming. Watch it. Johnson can't clinch here because Willard is too big and strong for him!. He mostly clinches short men fighting at heavyweight who don't move their feet like Burns, Ketchel and Flynn. And was warned repeatedly in the Moran fight. Ho-hum.

[GhostofDempsey]

This is another boxing myth. Hot in April, check the weather arrives in Havana. It rarely gets above 90 in the summer months. This is April. It's moderate and most likely in the low 80's during April in Havana. A nice day. I don't dispute the sun was out.

Willard on film takes control in the later rounds and Johnson doubles over for a body shot on film the round before the knock out. You can see the end coming. Watch it. Johnson can't clinch here because Willard is too big and strong for him!. He mostly clinches short men fighting at heavyweight who don't move their feet like Burns, Ketchel and Flynn. And was warned repeatedly in the Moran fight. Ho-hum.

Yep, it gets brutally hot in the Midwest during summer. I recall the heatwave of 1995, driving across country along I-80...upper 90's with high humidity all the way from NY to the end of Nebraska.

[Willie Pep 229]

This is another boxing myth. Hot in April, check the weather arrives in Havana. It rarely gets above 90 in the summer months. This is April. It's moderate and most likely in the low 80's during April in Havana. A nice day. I don't dispute the sun was out.

Willard on film takes control in the later rounds and Johnson doubles over for a body shot on film the round before the knock out. You can see the end coming. Watch it. Johnson can't clinch here because Willard is too big and strong for him!. He mostly clinches short men fighting at heavyweight who don't move their feet like Burns, Ketchel and Flynn. And was warned repeatedly in the Moran fight. Ho-hum.

According to the Havana newspaper it was 72 to 74 degrees with an overcast sky. It had rained the day before the fight and there was concern they might have to postpone the fight because of rain.

The sky's cleared by early afternoon and the fight was on.

The humidity was quite high that day (as the sky was filled with water wanting to rain) and as the day worn on the thick air did become taxing on the fighters.

If you compare the pre-fight photos between Johnson-Willard in Cuba, and Dempsey-Willard in Ohio, where it did indeed hit 100 degrees, you can see that Johnson and Willard are both covered up trying to keep the heat in, whereas Dempsey and Willard are stripped to the waste and have sun blocking umbrellas placed in their corners.

The Havana fight started with the temperature somewhere in the the mid 70s and the fighters weren't hot by any stretch of the imagination but as the 26 rounds proceeded into the afternoon the humidity certainly made it tough on the fighters.

I have lived in Miami for 45 years now, the temperature seldom goes above 95, and even that is rare, but the humidity can make it feel like it's 100 plus as it taxes your body and wind.

Also if you look at Havana's temperature for April over the past decade you will find that the temp has gone above 90 degrees only three times (days) over a course of 300 possible April days.

Added to this is the fact that the fight took place on April 4th, first week of April, where the temp never reached 90 degrees (for the past 10 years.)

The actual temperature that day did not reach 80 degrees never mind 90. But the humidity was very high with very thick air.

So certainly the heat played into how the fight played out, but the actual temperature was in the mid 70s with a very high humidity.

This is one of those great examples where you really shouldn't trust fighters quotes. Both fighters years later claimed the temperature was above 100 degrees and it became a boxing factoid repeated over and over by secondary sources.

Some historians believe Willard confused the Ohio fight with Havana, while others believe JJ was just making up an excuse.

Many (or those who are willing to admit it) know Johnson tried to use the imfamous picture (taken as a single frame from the fight film) released in the States, of him being knocked out, as proof that he was taking a dive. Holding his arm over his eyes to block the blinding sun, with his legs lifted up off the blazing hot canvas.

Johnson story was complete BS and he sold that BS story for years until the full fight film was finally made available (1940) and everyone got to see that the infamous photo was a just single frame of film catching Johnson in the motion of falling to the canvas unconscious.

His arm slipped onto his forehead and his legs laid flat on the canvas and he was out cold for 30 seconds.

The heat was always JJ's excuse. It was there and maybe it did affect his game, but his lies about how hot it actually was, were over the top nonsense.