Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

[GhostofDempsey]

Johnson began as a sparring partner for Joe Gans. Johnson fought for and won theTexas State MIddleweight title.On the 1st of November 1897 Johnson was born on the 31st of March 1878 which makes him19 at the time
Johnson weighed180lbs when he fought Denver Ed Martin on the 5th of Feb1903 he was24 years old.
Johnson weighed178lbs when he fought Sam McVey on the 26th of Feb 1903 he was still 24 years old!lol
I have the highest respect for Cly but none for you. you're a EUNUCH without the balls to admit you are wrong.
I have a very full life I'm just back from Istanbul.
I played cards with friends Saturday and went to Jazz yesterday ,out Thursday to listen to some jazz guitar. Out all next weekend, out for a meal next Wednesday, and off to Sorrento next month.
You should have such a busy social life!

I don't need all the redundant Johnson bio talking points. As I said earlier, I'm not interested in which obscure reference you pulled your claims from. I used Moyle's book to prove you wrong over and over a again, and you're still countering with contradictions. Make up your mind, is Moyle the authority or not? He said Johnson was 6'1". He also said Johnson outweighed Langford by about 40 pounds. Johnson and Langford have each claimed Johnson outweighed Sam by 50+ pounds. You seem to think you know better than the two fighters who were there. You are also contradicting Moyle, who you have touted as the premier boxing biographer.

[Dr. Z]

I don't need all the redundant Johnson bio talking points. As I said earlier, I'm not interested in which obscure reference you pulled your claims from. I used Moyle's book to prove you wrong over and over a again, and you're still countering with contradictions. Make up your mind, is Moyle the authority or not? He said Johnson was 6'1". He also said Johnson outweighed Langford by about 40 pounds. Johnson and Langford have each claimed Johnson outweighed Sam by 50+ pounds. You seem to think you know better than the two fighters who were there. You are also contradicting Moyle, who you have touted as the premier boxing biographer.

Ivich spits out the same talking points, and has done so for years. And yes, he not only lies, but contradicts himelf.

[Ivich]

Um if Johnson fought for the Texas middle weight limit eery in his professional career ( he also lost to Utah Bob Thompson, a smaller fighter listed at 135 -144 pounds ) he was certainly under 178 pounds! To say he was never near 178 pounds is very dishonest! Pay attention to what your write!

You soft fool I KNOW he was a under 178lbs in his early fights ,it's your tag partner who says he wasn't!lol
Johnson was a middleweight at the age of 19 !
EERY?
You couldnt make up the **** you post.you must ,"hear voices"!

[Incapable]

Ivich spits out the same talking points, and has done so for years. And yes, he not only lies, but contradicts himelf.

And you don't? ??
Take a look in the mirror sunbeam

[Incapable]

You soft fool I KNOW he was a under 178lbs in his early fights ,it's your tag partner who says he wasn't!lol
Johnson was a middleweight at the age of 19 !
EERY?
You couldnt make up the **** you post.you must ,"hear voices"!

Lol good one pal.
It's fun watching these two kiss each other butt's and come out with crap.

[Ivich]

Ivich spits out the same talking points, and has done so for years. And yes, he not only lies, but contradicts himelf.

Contradicts HIMELF?

[Ivich]

I don't need all the redundant Johnson bio talking points. As I said earlier, I'm not interested in which obscure reference you pulled your claims from. I used Moyle's book to prove you wrong over and over a again, and you're still countering with contradictions. Make up your mind, is Moyle the authority or not? He said Johnson was 6'1". He also said Johnson outweighed Langford by about 40 pounds. Johnson and Langford have each claimed Johnson outweighed Sam by 50+ pounds. You seem to think you know better than the two fighters who were there. You are also contradicting Moyle, who you have touted as the premier boxing biographer.

Moyle is the premier Langford biographer , Name two others? Nobody alive knows what either Johnson or Langford weighed for their fight because neither weighed in.
Clay says Langford was 5.6" he wasnt, he was 5' 7 1/2".
Clay is a fine researcher, but like everyone else he isnt infallible.

Didn't you say Johnson was nearly 6' 2"? He wasn't he was 6' 1/4"
Didn't you also say Johnson was bigger than McVey though McVey was 15lbs heavier ?
How does that work out?


What you're not interested in is being proven WRONG!
Which is strange because I should have thought you would be used to it by now!
Langford weighed 155bs a year earlier, 1905 , do you think it likely he dropped 15 pounds to fight Johnson.?

Yes ?

No?

[GhostofDempsey]

Moyle is the premier Langford biographer , Name two others? Nobody alive knows what either Johnson or Langford weighed for their fight because neither weighed in.
Clay says Langford was 5.6" he wasnt, he was 5' 7 1/2".
Clay is a fine researcher, but like everyone else he isnt infallible.

Didn't you say Johnson was nearly 6' 2"? He wasn't he was 6' 1/4"
Didn't you also say Johnson was bigger than McVey though McVey was 15lbs heavier ?
How does that work out?


What you're not interested in is being proven WRONG!
Which is strange because I should have thought you would be used to it by now!
Langford weighed 155bs a year earlier, 1905 , do you think it likely he dropped 15 pounds to fight Johnson.?

Yes ?

No?

Right on cue, you give with one hand and take with the other. First Moyle was the end-all be-all about Langford, now he's wrong about his height, weight, knockdowns, fights offered to him. You think Johnson dropped down to 178 to fight McVey in the span of a year. You really are a pathetic curmudgeon.

[Ivich]

Right on cue, you give with one hand and take with the other. First Moyle was the end-all be-all about Langford, now he's wrong about his height, weight, knockdowns, fights offered to him. You think Johnson dropped down to 178 to fight McVey in the span of a year. You really are a pathetic curmudgeon.

Nope he isnt wrong about his weight he doesnt know what he weighed nobody does. Your stand is that Johnson never weighed below 185lbs yes? Then what was he doing fighting for theTexas middleweight title at the age of 19?
Moyle doesnt give a weight for either Langford or Johnson
Moyle makes no mention of Langford flooring Johnson in the 1st round as Langford stated he did.Why is that?
This is what Fleischer's Father in Law said,"Johnson went to the mat in the 5th round as a result of a slip when he missed with a big swing aimed at Langford's jaw but Sam reportedly caught him with a terrific blow just above the heart"
Perhaps you've forgotten I also own the book?
Moyle also says there is NO MENTION of a knockdown of Johnson in any of the Boston Papers ,Boston being the home town of Langford.
Do you really think it likely that Langford's home town news papers would not have mentioned him flooring Johnson? Get real Mate!
Stop clutching at straws and realise Mendoza is playing you for a fool!

Moyle is an expert on Langford not Johnson ,for that you have to refer to Pollack! They are close friends ,contact them if you really want to know anything, I do!
Pollack was kind enough to give me an acknowledgement in his first vol of Johnson ,I'm not an expert ,but I do know more than you about this subject.
We can all learn why can't you accept that?

[GhostofDempsey]

Nope he isnt wrong about his weight he doesnt know what he weighed nobody does. Your stand is that Johnson never weighed below 185lbs yes? Then what was he doing fighting for theTexas middleweight title at the age of 19?
Moyle doesnt give a weight for either Langford or Johnson
Moyle makes no mention of Langford flooring Johnson in the 1st round as Langford stated he did.Why is that?
This is what Fleischer's Father in Law said,"Johnson went to the mat in the 5th round as a result of a slip when he missed with a big swing aimed at Langford's jaw but Sam reportedly caught him with a terrific blow just above the heart"
Perhaps you've forgotten I also own the book?
Moyle also says there is NO MENTION of a knockdown of Johnson in any of the Boston Papers ,Boston being the home town of Langford.
Do you really think it likely that Langford's home town news papers would not have mentioned him flooring Johnson? Get real Mate!
Stop clutching at straws and realise Mendoza is playing you for a fool!

Moyle is an expert on Langford not Johnson ,for that you have to refer to Pollack! They are close friends ,contact them if you really want to know anything, I do!
Pollack was kind enough to give me an acknowledgement in his first vol of Johnson ,I'm not an expert ,but I do know more than you about this subject.
We can all learn why can't you accept that?

I already posted that quote from Moyle’s book, you insisted it wasn’t on the page I cited. You were playing games because you were painted into a corner with nowhere to run. Now you want to use the quote? You insist Johnson’s first book was a parody and fiction. It wasn’t. It was a compilation of articles that quoted him and that he contributed to first hand.

No Boston papers that he was aware of mentioned a knockdown. How many news agencies or papers were there in Boston back then? I doubt all papers of that day were preserved in the archives.

You think you know more about Johnson than anyone, as if you have some insight to the man that no one else has. You cherry pick what you want to believe.