Are all modern fighters bigger?

[NChristo]

As for Haye- so your simply relying on his own words that he could do better and having a laugh about his toe, and claiming he was outclassed.

Well I put it to you he was not outclassed as such, simply out ranged and overpowered. The guy delivered reflexes never before seen in a HW fight that night and it is not dominance when someone else is continually missing the target also.

The American perception of a good boxing style is literally based around running away, popularised most by Ali and in it's most recent incarnation championed by Mayweather, yet David Haye, who spends the majority of his time on the edge, not even really back tracking is slammed as fighting scared.

Basically he is just not an idiot and doesn't get hit on purpose as opposed to past favourites. That style just can't cut it today since the punches are too hard for that (like Wlad's).

Just ignore the part about where I thought he should actually attempt to win rounds instead of looking for the 1 big punch too end the fight, when I say he fought scared I am not referring to fighting on the back foot or what you call ''running away'' I am referring to him not allowing himself to take any risks what so ever, it's a championship fight and his effort was little, he would throw a big right hand, back away and reset himself then try again, jump in with a hail mary and hope it hits instead of following it up with something else, you said yourself that he was dodging a lot of punches and in that he had created plenty of opportunities to counter so why didn't he ?, it's not like he put himself out of position he could of still thrown, single punches all night is not going to cut it as a great performance, the few times he did throw a combo he landed and had Wlad on the back foot, why not keep it up ?.

He was overpowered although he spent the whole night on the outside not even attempting to get on the inside which is where Wlad would do his thing and when Wlad did get close Haye would take a knee before anything could happen, the range differential didn't play to much into the fight because of Haye's defense and he was still landing jabs when he would throw them, he had a grasp of the distance he had to be at.

Boxing is about taking risks, especially when you're the contender going into someone backyard to take their belt.

Haye let Wlad dictate the pace of every single round and was outclassed for that reason, thus let him dominate, and it was absolutely a dominating performance from Wlad whether Haye was making him miss or not, Wlad seen everything Haye was going to throw before he threw it, as happens when your opponent is throwing 1 punch at a time.

Just because

he is just not an idiot and doesn't get hit on purpose

Does not mean he shouldn't take risks, Haye had the power too knock Wlad out yet Wlad didn't fight scared because he wanted to land punches, maintain control of the fight and win rounds, I feel Haye fought the fight of someone who didn't come to win, he just wanted to get out unscathed and collect his money.

A strong case against you comes from your perception of boxing and your judgement of people, when I said he fought scared you instantly took it as I meant he was running for the whole fight when I didn't, you could say that fighting scared is running away but then it shows that you don't know what it's like to be in the ring or to see someone that is actually fighting scared(Again you can tell this if you haven't boxed but if you want too play it as you've been in the ring so you know the sport better then everyone else then this is one place you should of understood), the I'm always right attitude just doesn't work here or in boxing, I actually like having Jugg and Sonny here, they have for the most part very differential views from everyone else but back up everything with some kind of argument instead of just 'handwaving' comments that they don't feel they can answer.

[billeau2]

Your arguments have been little more than bait which I've no wish to bite on, the content of which is nothing but handwavable material.



False. Nobody of such credentials could be so naive and backward with regards to boxing. I'm afraid your suffering from "Corso syndrome" here.




Please indicate what you would have done differently to "increase" the chances of victory? I'd say Haye maximised his chances.

You don't even know how to train on a heavybag! You boxed? and your assumption about boxing? that is not true.

There are different opinions on the importance of training with weights, etc. Some of these are legitimate...fighters are succesful using diffrent methods, thats a fact. But you always create absurdities. You also just got owned again from Christo...oh well happens so frequently anyhow.

Regarding the Haye fight, was size a factor...yes. Haye is an ambush fighter with relatively limited skills, under those circumstances size was a factor. Haye is a one trick poney. He has become adept at setting up the big punch.

For Haye a fight is a calculation where he has to have a certain amount of opportunities to land his punch. In the vlad fight he was prevented from doing so.

[billeau2]

It clearly wasn't bait, you said something and I questioned it, I'm going to assume handwaving material means that you don't know how to respond too it ?. Bait would be 99% of what you post, I'm just tired of rinsing through it and don't really like to put people on ignore so thought I'd question you on it too see if you'd respond with something legitimate for once. Nope.

He could of actually put in an more of an effort, increased his output and instead of just looking for the one big punch he could of at least tried to win rounds by keeping busy, maybe delayed the fight if the toe really was such a big issue for him ?, I mean that was his excuse for why he put in such a poor performance right ?, he admitted to not doing all he could. He would of still lost regardless, like I said Haye was just outclassed in there.


That's me

Here's one lad I used to train / trained with

There's a video of his 1st fight on my youtube channel, this one he was 9-2 I think.

And I uploaded this one just for you sweetheart, 1 of the lad I helped train / trained with in his Semi Finals bout


Norton and McGuinness in the corner for all the fights, my old trainers, can't box anymore myself because I'm ****in diseased, Tietze's Syndrome, not ''Corso Sydrome''.


Again none of this means anything in here, I've studied the sport since I was able too and use what I know here to learn from other people and debate with them, not put them in their place or to pretend to be above them because I've been in the ring before, I guarantee there's plenty of people who have never been to a gym who could put my knowledge of the sport to shame and I actually love that.

Didn't have to prove anything but it's always good to learn about the people you're speaking too on here, just posted these for the sake of that I guess.

Now for the sale of humor and comparison lets watch Elroy hit the heavy bag.

[billeau2]

You could put up any crap on here and I wouldn't know the difference if were you or not.

I think a stronger case against you comes from your very perceptions on boxing. It is impossible for any free thinking and intelligent person, one who is versed in the sport to actually have such opinions. I can understand an AGENDA for racial, national or nostalgic purposes etc, but not for REAL. That is how I can filter BS from truth w/o knowing anything else about you!

As for Haye- so your simply relying on his own words that he could do better and having a laugh about his toe, and claiming he was outclassed.

Well I put it to you he was not outclassed as such, simply out ranged and overpowered. The guy delivered reflexes never before seen in a HW fight that night and it is not dominance when someone else is continually missing the target also.

The American perception of a good boxing style is literally based around running away, popularised most by Ali and in it's most recent incarnation championed by Mayweather, yet David Haye, who spends the majority of his time on the edge, not even really back tracking is slammed as fighting scared.

Basically he is just not an idiot and doesn't get hit on purpose as opposed to past favourites. That style just can't cut it today since the punches are too hard for that (like Wlad's).

You just cant admit you got owned. You of course overstate haye's talents and then make vapid generalisations. As said to you before...there is a documented long and detailed narrative regarding the American and British fighting styles.

Haye has to be great because it makes Vlad look better, what a putz you are. I can respect an argument such as Juggy's that size was a major factor in this fight. We may even disagree on WHY size was such a factor (I don't know, we may even agree). But to characterize Haye as having a wealth of natural ability given his fighting style, tactics, and past performance is a stretch. Haye is simply not that good, he is an exceptional puncher and much like Wilder, when his punch is neutralized, whether it be via size, tactics, whatever...he cannot adjust in the ring.

[Scott9945]

apparently I don't have to call you anything you did that yourself with above comment.....^^^^^^^^^^:haha
Repost what,?more importantly why? When I have never commented on a Frazier/bonevena fight video that I recall??????

I owe you an apology. That was Sonnyboyx who told that lie and I carelessly remembered it as being from you.

Very sorry about that.

[juggernaut666]

I owe you an apology. That was Sonnyboyx who told that lie and I carelessly remembered it as being from you.

Very sorry about that.

Its all good ! People need to lighten up here...its a forum.... the only true cry baby on here who is deliberatly miserable Is corso, a throw stones first guy then cries when they are hurled back!

Everyone else? Sure I disagree with most,but everyone else seems to be on the same page at least...that guy is on a whole other book, of course I still find him almost of a child like adult who I enjoy his insults for entertainment purposes,beyond that?...not so much boxing talk,as I don't find him all that knowledgable to what I already know or wish to know ......


To his credit he DOES know basic fundamentals,a kids coach like mentality with decent history of the sport,,so there s that!

Hes just a legend in his own mind and we'll leave it at that!

People can say what they wish but Billeua and Elroy are the two smartest guys on here,even thought they are extreme opposites! i'll take their word over a nimrod like like Ray anyday, the guy actually still bigs up Gallento as a would be champion if he were around today ....give me a break!

[juggernaut666]

Just ignore the part about where I thought he should actually attempt to win rounds instead of looking for the 1 big punch too end the fight, when I say he fought scared I am not referring to fighting on the back foot or what you call ''running away'' I am referring to him not allowing himself to take any risks what so ever, it's a championship fight and his effort was little, he would throw a big right hand, back away and reset himself then try again, jump in with a hail mary and hope it hits instead of following it up with something else, you said yourself that he was dodging a lot of punches and in that he had created plenty of opportunities to counter so why didn't he ?, it's not like he put himself out of position he could of still thrown, single punches all night is not going to cut it as a great performance, the few times he did throw a combo he landed and had Wlad on the back foot, why not keep it up ?.

He was overpowered although he spent the whole night on the outside not even attempting to get on the inside which is where Wlad would do his thing and when Wlad did get close Haye would take a knee before anything could happen, the range differential didn't play to much into the fight because of Haye's defense and he was still landing jabs when he would throw them, he had a grasp of the distance he had to be at.

Boxing is about taking risks, especially when you're the contender going into someone backyard to take their belt.

Haye let Wlad dictate the pace of every single round and was outclassed for that reason, thus let him dominate, and it was absolutely a dominating performance from Wlad whether Haye was making him miss or not, Wlad seen everything Haye was going to throw before he threw it, as happens when your opponent is throwing 1 punch at a time.

Just because

Does not mean he shouldn't take risks, Haye had the power too knock Wlad out yet Wlad didn't fight scared because he wanted to land punches, maintain control of the fight and win rounds, I feel Haye fought the fight of someone who didn't come to win, he just wanted to get out unscathed and collect his money.

A strong case against you comes from your perception of boxing and your judgement of people, when I said he fought scared you instantly took it as I meant he was running for the whole fight when I didn't, you could say that fighting scared is running away but then it shows that you don't know what it's like to be in the ring or to see someone that is actually fighting scared(Again you can tell this if you haven't boxed but if you want too play it as you've been in the ring so you know the sport better then everyone else then this is one place you should of understood), the I'm always right attitude just doesn't work here or in boxing, I actually like having Jugg and Sonny here, they have for the most part very differential views from everyone else but back up everything with some kind of argument instead of just 'handwaving' comments that they don't feel they can answer.

Emanuel Steward: “David Haye was acting like a punk. He was falling down every time he got close to Wladimir, dropping to his knees and looking to the referee!”



"Steward is right, of course. Haye spent a good deal of the time flopping to the canvas when Wladimir would get near him to clinch or throw. At first it seemed like a wise move on Haye’s part to avoid having to hold up Wladimir’s weight during a clinch. However, Haye took it too far and started looking to the referee after he would flop, as if he was hoping the referee would continue to take points away from Wladimir after initially taking one point off in the 7th. It was sad, because that’s no way to try and win a fight. It was going to take more than getting two or three flop points for Haye to win this fight because he was so primitive with his fighting style and fighting so timidly.


Steward noted that Haye would fall off balance after he would throw one punches. Steward said the key was to make Haye miss his first shot, and then he would do the rest himself by falling “all over the place.” Steward said that it wasn’t Haye’s nature to be like Mike Tyson and go out and attack Wladimir. Steward said that Haye is intimidated by big guys and looks not to get hit rather than coming in looking to land.'



And again I don't really think Haye could do anymore than run /retreat and swarm,then repeat...no one will have any success standing in front of him....I believe the fury fight will show why. the last time Wlad went out of his way to k.o someone was against the 6'8 260 Wach,in which he dedicated the fight to E.Steward when he passed.....those shots that wlad landed would have dropped an elephant!

sorry bill...I know you have bets on here!

[Elroy1]

Yeah I'm through defending Haye, he did drop the ball either way and I also don't think he could've done much better.

I'm just splitting hairs really so guess might as well opt out.

As for this "getting owned business", I feel fine

[Anthony342]

Just ignore the part about where I thought he should actually attempt to win rounds instead of looking for the 1 big punch too end the fight, when I say he fought scared I am not referring to fighting on the back foot or what you call ''running away'' I am referring to him not allowing himself to take any risks what so ever, it's a championship fight and his effort was little, he would throw a big right hand, back away and reset himself then try again, jump in with a hail mary and hope it hits instead of following it up with something else, you said yourself that he was dodging a lot of punches and in that he had created plenty of opportunities to counter so why didn't he ?, it's not like he put himself out of position he could of still thrown, single punches all night is not going to cut it as a great performance, the few times he did throw a combo he landed and had Wlad on the back foot, why not keep it up ?.

He was overpowered although he spent the whole night on the outside not even attempting to get on the inside which is where Wlad would do his thing and when Wlad did get close Haye would take a knee before anything could happen, the range differential didn't play to much into the fight because of Haye's defense and he was still landing jabs when he would throw them, he had a grasp of the distance he had to be at.

Boxing is about taking risks, especially when you're the contender going into someone backyard to take their belt.

Haye let Wlad dictate the pace of every single round and was outclassed for that reason, thus let him dominate, and it was absolutely a dominating performance from Wlad whether Haye was making him miss or not, Wlad seen everything Haye was going to throw before he threw it, as happens when your opponent is throwing 1 punch at a time.

Just because

Does not mean he shouldn't take risks, Haye had the power too knock Wlad out yet Wlad didn't fight scared because he wanted to land punches, maintain control of the fight and win rounds, I feel Haye fought the fight of someone who didn't come to win, he just wanted to get out unscathed and collect his money.

A strong case against you comes from your perception of boxing and your judgement of people, when I said he fought scared you instantly took it as I meant he was running for the whole fight when I didn't, you could say that fighting scared is running away but then it shows that you don't know what it's like to be in the ring or to see someone that is actually fighting scared(Again you can tell this if you haven't boxed but if you want too play it as you've been in the ring so you know the sport better then everyone else then this is one place you should of understood), the I'm always right attitude just doesn't work here or in boxing, I actually like having Jugg and Sonny here, they have for the most part very differential views from everyone else but back up everything with some kind of argument instead of just 'handwaving' comments that they don't feel they can answer.

Maybe with an argument, but Sonny doesn't back up his views with any kind of evidence, just hearsay. There's no point in arguing with someone who won't even take any opposing point of view into consideration, no matter how many times they're proved wrong. He even admitted he'd never change his mind on Lennox Lewis. This is after saying he'd change his mind if given proof. But then wouldn't, so he just lies and says and believes what he wants.

[BennyST]

The Haye vs Wlad fight was one of the highest level technical affairs in modern boxing.

Haye did fight overly conservative (scared is a silly term). And that cost him the fight. It also ensured he would not get knocked out. In fact there was a higher chance of Haye getting KOed that of him winning, which he wisely understood.

Wlad ALSO fought very guardedly against Haye however- and we can say with some safety that the size difference and utilisation of it is pretty much what told the tale here...

BOTH guys offered elite skills and Haye came with a gameplan that was quite interesting. He hung right on the edge, looking to capitalise on a dart in and out big right the whole fight, believing that if he could survive and do this the whole fight he might only need to get lucky once or twice to turn the tide. Obviously he was wrong and the strategy failed. But such is the problem when you are fighting a guy who'se entire style is based around shutting down his opponents style.

Wlad vs Haye was a rather EVEN fight accuracy wise with Haye just throwing less than Wlad, who being length and weight wise more comfortable, could afford to! Not many make Wlad miss so much.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha hahahahaha......ooooooh....oooooh....****e...my sides are hurting.