Hagler was Absolutely the WEAKEST of the Big 4.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Hagler had Duran wrapped around his finger the whole fight. He didn't brawl with him because he was worried about his power. By the time he realized he didn't hit hard enough to hurt him it was too late. He would have knocked Duran out and we all know it just watch the tape.

Oh I watched the tape several times. Hagler had no idea what to do with Duran the whole fight. You're buying into his words in the post fight interview. They all lie on the post fight interview. Really watch it. He couldn't get going against Hands of Stone and it wasn't a choice. This guy blew through lots of natural middleweights, but couldn't touch Duran. And according to Larry Holmes, Duran won the fight. I understand you being a fan and all, but Duran was one of his worst performances.

[The plunger man]

Of course I'm biased. That is the basis for argument in sports. Leonard ran, watched the fight again because you obviously have just read about it from BIASED writers. Btw Kid Gavilan, Joey Maxim, Jose Torres, Tony Zale, Freddie Steele, Gene Fullmer, Nino Benvenuti, and Carlos Monzon were just a few ATG's who stayed in one division. Hagler had been in far more wars than Leonard and was 3 years older than him. Hagler was far more over the hump.

well for a start benvenuti won two world titles one at jnr middlweight and then at middleweight so you must read up more lol

Tony zale weighed as less 1541/2 to 165lbs how is that the same division
Jose Torres actually campaigned as middlweight for the first half of his career and weighed 159lbs at his lowest and his highest weight was 182...even boxed for the lightheavyweight title at the top end of 175.... U don't know what ur talking about....and your making yourself look stupid lol...Leonard was 30 years and hagler was 32 and active...and 2 years prior many consider his most deal ting performance ......Leonard had 1 fight in 5 years and a naturally smaller man and he made hagler look clumsy one dimensional and robotic..the man even got fooled into being orthodox the first 2 rounds..had Leonard on the ropes numerous occasions and each time Leonard came back with something better....go watch the 11th round to see how beat hagler was and if that's not enough go listen to goody petronelli saying to him ..we need it bad....go bring the monster out on him..don't stop untill he is down ...love it and just deserts for always calling up smaller fighters for his pay days

[The plunger man]

There were countless ATGs who only fought in 1 division. Hagler beat Duran by a landslide (not officially of course but anyone who knows boxing does). He knocked Hearns tf out. SRL only won by showboating and landing arm punches. Hagler was brought down by judges because of discrimination, if he had an equal chance he would have been king of the Big 4.

Obviously your either from Brockton or Newark Nj to have such blind patriotism ....both your favourite fighters were from here...your credibility is blown son....and I remember reading about the 4 kings that if a boxing fan outside of that area walked and remarked about Leonard deserving the victory then they would have Been asked to step outside ? Sour grapes maybe ? Lol

[Anthony342]

Are you crazy?

Holmes won the WBC belt in the Norton fight cos Ali chose the Spinks rematch and then promptly retired. Holmes was champion at this stage and would go on to beat a solid list of contenders before facing Ali and winning, further solidifying his position.

By the time Holmes lost to Spinks, he was not only the lineal champion but the man in the division via 100% consensus.

Hearns may well be regarded as the man at 154 for a period in the early 80s but by no means was it a consensus decision.

In terms of Duran, I'm not saying the KO wasn't impressive, I'm saying that Duran was not necessarily regarded as one of the best fighters on the planet any more. The embarrassment versus Leonard was not yet forgotten and he had gone 3-3 in his last 6 fights and although the Hagler fight did a lot to mend the fences, it wasn't until the Barkley win that he managed to get back some of his reputation.

Yep, Holmes held both the WBC and Ring title belts at heavyweight, just not the WBA one, but did have the IBF belt, once that was added as a major title belt in 1983.

So Holmes was lineal champion, which means he was the top man at that weight class and not holding the WBA belt is kind of a moot point.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Oh I watched the tape several times. Hagler had no idea what to do with Duran the whole fight. You're buying into his words in the post fight interview. They all lie on the post fight interview. Really watch it. He couldn't get going against Hands of Stone and it wasn't a choice. This guy blew through lots of natural middleweights, but couldn't touch Duran. And according to Larry Holmes, Duran won the fight. I understand you being a fan and all, but Duran was one of his worst performances.

Helen Keller is that you?

[Mr.MojoRisin']

well for a start benvenuti won two world titles one at jnr middlweight and then at middleweight so you must read up more lol

Tony zale weighed as less 1541/2 to 165lbs how is that the same division
Jose Torres actually campaigned as middlweight for the first half of his career and weighed 159lbs at his lowest and his highest weight was 182...even boxed for the lightheavyweight title at the top end of 175.... U don't know what ur talking about....and your making yourself look stupid lol...Leonard was 30 years and hagler was 32 and active...and 2 years prior many consider his most deal ting performance ......Leonard had 1 fight in 5 years and a naturally smaller man and he made hagler look clumsy one dimensional and robotic..the man even got fooled into being orthodox the first 2 rounds..had Leonard on the ropes numerous occasions and each time Leonard came back with something better....go watch the 11th round to see how beat hagler was and if that's not enough go listen to goody petronelli saying to him ..we need it bad....go bring the monster out on him..don't stop untill he is down ...love it and just deserts for always calling up smaller fighters for his pay days

Benvenuti was hardly a light middleweight even though he won a two titles there. He was consistently at Middleweight throughout his career. Jose Torres is a Light Heavyweight even if he fought at Middleweight, he would be considered just some misc fighter from that era if we just judged him on his middleweight career. The highest title he fought for at middleweight was a Puerto Rican title. As far as Tony Zale, i guess you forgot that 154 3/4 is Middleweight. What did he accomplish in the Light heavyweight division? Absolutely nothing. You are reduced to nit picking tiny miscellaneous details as if they change the fact that MANY ATG's fought in only 1 divison.

[joseph5620]

I'm not questioning the manner of victory I'm just saying Hearn beating Duran wasn't seen as impressive until years later, that's just a boxing fact. Plus, Hearn was a big favourite going into the fight, with his HUGE size and reach advantage.

Actually Hearns was only a 2 to 1 favorite and you will have a hard time finding anybody who predicted Hearns would win in that fashion. It was seen as impressive then and it's impressive now.

[soul_survivor]

[/B]


Actually Hearns was only a 2 to 1 favorite and you will have a hard time finding anybody who predicted Hearns would win in that fashion. It was seen as impressive then and it's impressive now.

I don't care about betting odds, the fact is, the majority of sports writers and people in boxing expected Hearns to win and he did (in impressive fashion). And which ever way you put it, even if hearns managed to scrape by being the guy at 154, it still isn't as impressive as Leonard being the guy at 147 AND 160 or Hagler with his long reign as middleweight champ or Durans' decade long turn at 135, which is what I was getting at in my original post before you morphed it into a tommy hearns orgy.

[soul_survivor]

Yep, Holmes held both the WBC and Ring title belts at heavyweight, just not the WBA one, but did have the IBF belt, once that was added as a major title belt in 1983.

So Holmes was lineal champion, which means he was the top man at that weight class and not holding the WBA belt is kind of a moot point.

Exactly, it's ridiculous comparing Holmes at heavyweight to Hearns at 154. Some guys

[The plunger man]

Benvenuti was hardly a light middleweight even though he won a two titles there. He was consistently at Middleweight throughout his career. Jose Torres is a Light Heavyweight even if he fought at Middleweight, he would be considered just some misc fighter from that era if we just judged him on his middleweight career. The highest title he fought for at middleweight was a Puerto Rican title. As far as Tony Zale, i guess you forgot that 154 3/4 is Middleweight. What did he accomplish in the Light heavyweight division? Absolutely nothing. You are reduced to nit picking tiny miscellaneous details as if they change the fact that MANY ATG's fought in only 1 divison.

Are you a dummy or something ? For a start your saying benvenuti was in one weight dvsion and yet he won world titles at both weight classes lol....u can't pick and choose to suit you.......were talking about Torres who competed as middlweight and also won a world title at lightheavyweight....he also started his career at a later stage than hagler and he still moved up to lightheavyweight .....marvin from the age of 18 from till he was 32 years when he quit never weighed more than 163 pounds ....so if you think that's the same as weighing 159 and ending your career at 175 then there's something wrong with your brain....this has to do with the advantage a naturally bigger boxer will have over his smaller opponents .....you can't say they never went up in weights if they did....hagler didn't and that my point....benvenuti takes the biscuit .The man won a world title in two weight class for f@ck sake .....where's haglers light middlweight world title lol....as I said the only one I have seen which is a most identical to haglers is monzon but the first 20 or so bouts there's no weight recorded so he could have been lighter but We will never know....you go get in the ring with a boxer who is naturally bigger that you and holds all the physical advantages and let see how you get on...I boxed guy who were bigger than me by 5 kilos and it was a killer so don't talk to me about weights....Hagler litterally stayed in his own weight class and made his name calling up smaller fighters knowing there was a guy above him who called him out on numerous occasions but he didn't want to know....hagler knew the money was in the Durans , hearns and Leonard's and wanted no part of any light heavyweight....that's a bully in my eyes....Leonard and Duran both had no catch weights in facing hagler and both faced him at his natural weight.....Duran showed hagler could be beaten and Leonard beat him....I respect a fighter far more such as Duran or Leonard who has gone up through the weights and not only tested the weights but also won at them then a boxer who camps out in one division feeds his legacy with smaller all time great fighters.......that's why he is only lowly ranked in the p4p top 20 at best...where Leonard and Duran are top 10 ....by the look of your two favourite fighters hagler and Marciano sounds like your from Brockton or somewhere like it so ur probably biased ...a smaller inactive fighter rose to haglers prime weight after having 1 fight in 5 years and your saying that the same achievement as defending your title against the caveman lees or obelmejias of this world.....I never said you won't find any I said u will find very few like hagler who litterally stayed in one weight class all his career and 3 pounds is a lot different than 10lbs...I never said hagler was not a great fighters I just consider the likes of Duran,Leonard,walker,greb,Armstrong,Robinson,argue llo who competed and won at a higher weight better on the p4p list.....hagler resume is lacking in that respect and that's always been the case