Sonnyboy's Lennox Lewis appreciation thread.

[sonnyboyx2]

Well...All you have to do is go to any of a variety of threads where this debate took place and you were owned... Its the same debate, it happens on every Lewis thread and the same result of you being shown to be unrealistic regarding Lewis' comp...or I could cut and paste them for you?

So there is a solution to your dilemna Sonny wasn't that nice of me? Now in a desperate attempt to validate your ridiculous assertion this is what I want you to do: Make some ad hominum attack on me, say how some of your best friends are Lewis fans or some other indication that you are hardly biased, rinse and repeat, telling me how ignorant I am, are you following me?

Then I want you to tell me how I won't debate you and rinse and repeat, about how you are not biased and about how every Lewis victory was because of some force that aided lewis...and then you can become an object of laughter as you show how Tua, Morrison, Razor Ruddock OH wait poor beat up Razor!!!! Briggs, Holyfield oh wait!!! poor old washed up Holyfield, were all class c fighters ok?

Then I want you to tell me about how Ruiz and Byrd were giants among men, guys feared by Lewis and ducked ok?

Then rinse and repeat....yada yada yada....Now be a good boy and do as I say.

i knew it lol...

Bill, are you claiming Ruddock was NOT Damaged Goods?

are you claiming Morrison had NOT been exposed by getting KOd in the first round by Michael Bent??

are you claiming Michael Grant was NOT exposed by getting floored 3 times in the opening round by Andrew Golota???

are you claiming Holyfield was NOT past his prime in 1999?

are you claiming John Ruiz who fought in 12 World Title fights was NOT a better challenge than Grant????

are you claiming Chris Byrd who defeated Holyfield & Tua far easier than Lewis did, was not a legitimate No1 challenger for Lewis???

are you claiming Shannon Briggs who was knocked out in less than 3rds by journeyman Darryll Wilson was a Class A fighter???

Bill you are wrong again mate.... i have never ever been owned. the threads you are talking about are discussing wether Lewis avoided Mike Tyson and Rid**** Bowe during the 1990s... my opinion is Lewis ducked them both.. other posters believe Tyson & Bowe ducked Lewis.. but what cannot ever be denied is the facts of Lewis career and the quality of his opponents, which i have pointed out on this here particular thread.

[SouthPawHitman]

The more I analyze the numbers and facts the higher I rate Lennox Lewis. By the years end I will probably have him ranked as the #1 P4P heavyweight of all time.

[sonnyboyx2]

Well...All you have to do is go to any of a variety of threads where this debate took place and you were owned... Its the same debate, it happens on every Lewis thread and the same result of you being shown to be unrealistic regarding Lewis' comp...or I could cut and paste them for you?

So there is a solution to your dilemna Sonny wasn't that nice of me? Now in a desperate attempt to validate your ridiculous assertion this is what I want you to do: Make some ad hominum attack on me, say how some of your best friends are Lewis fans or some other indication that you are hardly biased, rinse and repeat, telling me how ignorant I am, are you following me?

Then I want you to tell me how I won't debate you and rinse and repeat, about how you are not biased and about how every Lewis victory was because of some force that aided lewis...and then you can become an object of laughter as you show how Tua, Morrison, Razor Ruddock OH wait poor beat up Razor!!!! Briggs, Holyfield oh wait!!! poor old washed up Holyfield, were all class c fighters ok?

Then I want you to tell me about how Ruiz and Byrd were giants among men, guys feared by Lewis and ducked ok?

Then rinse and repeat....yada yada yada....Now be a good boy and do as I say.

Why don't you address the thread Question Bill?.... why are you focused on what i post. Why not just make your case for how you feel Lewis would do if he had turned pro in 1985.... Stop the personal **** against me mate, stop the ridicule and schoolboy antics which you direct at me and just "Talk Boxing".....Or is it "The Truth Hurts" when you read my comments Bill ??

[Anthony342]

Do you really believe Lewis could beat 80s Tyson & Holyfield??

Let us not kid ourselves here, Lewis got poleaxed by Oliver McCall in 1994 yet McCall was a bum/journeyman who had been beaten by Tony Tucker when Tucker was in the worst condition of his entire career. McCall had been hammered from pillar to post by Buster Douglas, he had been humiliated and beat up by Mike "Bounty" Hunter, yet that same McCall walked right through Lennox Lewis (25-0) McCall then lost his title to old Frank Bruno...

Mike Tyson of the late 1980s was a different person to the Mike Tyson of 2002. The 2002 version had served three custodial sentences totaling over 5yrs in jail. He was addicted to prescription anti-depressants, alcohol, ******* & cannabis.. Tyson threw half a dozen punches in the first 30 seconds looking terrible, then soaked up the punishment until the fight was over. He congratulated Lewis saying, "Thenkyou for the money Lennox" .. which tells you all you need to know about that fiasco.... Tyson of 85-90 was in incredible physical condition. Trainer Kevin Rooney and manager Bill Cayton all brought the best out of Tyson, who at that stage of his career would be a tough fight for any heavyweight in history. Lewis was a first round knock out for that version of Mike Tyson and a four round knock out at best for Evander Holyfield.

No I don't. That's why I said "if" and not when.

[Anthony342]

You are giving Lewis a very easy ride of it, yet the reality was Lewis never had an easy time of it in his whole career. Even when fighting Class C fighters, Lewis struggled badly. He struggled with Mavrovic, Briggs, Bruno & Mercer. was knocked out by mediocre journeyman McCall & Rahman. His victory over Ruddock was slightly tainted as Ruddock was "Damaged Goods" after two brutal beatings from Tyson..Botha, Grant, Akinwande & Morrison all failed when moved to world class level... Yet here is you claiming he would be champion for over 11yrs ?? ... Lewis was unfortunate to only get a draw against old Holyfield in 1999 yet Holyfield was "ROBBED" of his titles in their rematch, clearly beating Lewis with ease. Yet Lewis record as champion from 2000-2003 was far from impressive.. Lewis cannot be classed as a champion when picking a belt out of the garbage can or fighting for some vacant belt like he did in 97. So we have to take his title reign from 2000-2003 as his championship years..Again he was poleaxed by a mediocre journeyman. fought unworthy opponents in Grant & Botha along with David Tua (the fattest man to ever fight for the title)... To claim Lewis would go on a Joe Louis like run against the likes of Prime:

Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Larry Holmes
Michael Spinks
Tim Witherspoon
Tony Tubbs
Carl "Truth" Willams
Buster Douglas
Greg Page
Gerry Cooney
Trevor Berbick
George Foreman
Bonecrusher Smith
Michael Moorer
Frank Bruno

Is simply not being realistic. On their best day they were all Class A operators who were a tough fight for any champion in history. For you to just claim Lewis would "run through them" is laughable... Get a grip mate. climb off the guy's ****!

Mostly agree with this but a fighter still has to beat a contender, even when fighting for a vacant title. So saying he can't be called a champion is stretching things a bit. He became the true champion when beating Briggs anyway as he then "beat the man who beat the man" as they say, since Briggs had won the title previously from Foreman admittedly on a gift decision.

[Anthony342]

You are delusioned mate... Your claiming "Lewis took on all comers".."Fought the best of his era"???..... claiming Lewis opponents were Garbage is not folly.

Phil Jackson
Lionel Butler
Zelko Mavrovic
Henry Akinwande
Justin Fortune
Donavan Ruddock (Damaged Goods)
Hasim Rahman
Andrew Golota
David Tua
Oliver McCall
Shannon Briggs
Michael Grant
Frans Botha

Nothing but a bunch of exposed journeymen Class C fighters

Lewis beat Ruddock in 1992 Ruddock was "Damaged Goods" after two brutal beatings from Mike Tyson..... over the next 11yrs (92-2003) all these fighters held versions of the heavyweight title:

Wlad Klitschko
Michael Moorer
Evander Holyfield 3 times
Mike Tyson
Bruce Seldon
George Foreman
Corrie Sanders
Rid**** Bowe
Vitali Klitschko
Herbie Hide
John Ruiz
Michael Bent
Chris Byrd
Henry Akinwande
Tommy Morrison (HIV)
Tim Witherspoon (former champ highly ranked 95-97)

Lewis avoided and turned down fights with most of these fighters. Claiming them all to be "Afraid of him" even tho Lewis was offered career high paydays to fight them..All of Lewis opponents (93-2003) pale in comparison to the list above... Lewis was an opportunist who avoided every fighter who was "At the Top of his Game"...Lewis may well have beaten all those fighters, but his KO losses to journeyman McCall & Rahman, make that seem very unlikely...

He didn't fight a lot of those guys, yes. But Corrie Sanders only held the WBO belt, which was not a major title belt until about 2004, after Lewis retired, so there was no demand for that fight. He did fight Holyfield, Tyson, Vitali, Akinwande and Morrison though, some later than he should've. Wlad was also only WBO champ during Lewis' career, so no real incentive there. Now if he was IBF champ, like he became in 2006, there would've been a lot more demand for that fight.

[billeau2]

i knew it lol...

Bill, are you claiming Ruddock was NOT Damaged Goods?

are you claiming Morrison had NOT been exposed by getting KOd in the first round by Michael Bent??

are you claiming Michael Grant was NOT exposed by getting floored 3 times in the opening round by Andrew Golota???

are you claiming Holyfield was NOT past his prime in 1999?

are you claiming John Ruiz who fought in 12 World Title fights was NOT a better challenge than Grant????

are you claiming Chris Byrd who defeated Holyfield & Tua far easier than Lewis did, was not a legitimate No1 challenger for Lewis???

are you claiming Shannon Briggs who was knocked out in less than 3rds by journeyman Darryll Wilson was a Class A fighter???

Bill you are wrong again mate.... i have never ever been owned. the threads you are talking about are discussing wether Lewis avoided Mike Tyson and Rid**** Bowe during the 1990s... my opinion is Lewis ducked them both.. other posters believe Tyson & Bowe ducked Lewis.. but what cannot ever be denied is the facts of Lewis career and the quality of his opponents, which i have pointed out on this here particular thread.

Thank you! Now I will ask you to kindly repeat yourself, again and again and again, can you do that for me? I bet you can! Remember IF YOU KEEP REPEATING IT IT WILL BE TRUE!!! Trust me on that one sonny.

[billeau2]

Why don't you address the thread Question Bill?.... why are you focused on what i post. Why not just make your case for how you feel Lewis would do if he had turned pro in 1985.... Stop the personal **** against me mate, stop the ridicule and schoolboy antics which you direct at me and just "Talk Boxing".....Or is it "The Truth Hurts" when you read my comments Bill ??

Dude your slipping!! you forgot to repeat yourself after the ad hominum attacks. You are supposed to repeat yourself about Lewis' comp remember KEEP REPEATING IT AND IT WILL BECOME TRUE! You have to trust me on that.

Now please...lets hear about how weak Lewis' comp was please and how good Ruiz and Byrd were...Im waiting.

[billeau2]

Why don't you address the thread Question Bill?.... why are you focused on what i post. Why not just make your case for how you feel Lewis would do if he had turned pro in 1985.... Stop the personal **** against me mate, stop the ridicule and schoolboy antics which you direct at me and just "Talk Boxing".....Or is it "The Truth Hurts" when you read my comments Bill ??

Ahh excellent you are not even reading the posts!! great job Sonny. I stated exactly what my position was regarding your question, it was the first thing I responded to actually. Here I will repeat myself to show that I care ok?

Lewis was smart to wait because it allowed him to come in and start a new epoche. lewis then could rule over subsequent people coming up and challenging instead of focusing on a division in its twilight and perhaps being one of the pack. lewis matured a little later and imo that is ok, its a way...Instead of epoch battles he was more like Louis in that he was focused on defending his title not fighting the likes of a prime Tyson, etc.

So there it is.

[billeau2]

Why don't you address the thread Question Bill?.... why are you focused on what i post. Why not just make your case for how you feel Lewis would do if he had turned pro in 1985.... Stop the personal **** against me mate, stop the ridicule and schoolboy antics which you direct at me and just "Talk Boxing".....Or is it "The Truth Hurts" when you read my comments Bill ??

Here is the original post which you responded to BTW:

Lewis was prudent and became a professional when he was ready. Lewis being in the shark tank when there was a lot of great comp would have been intersting for sure but the fact is he would have not been able at that time to distinguish himself. It would have been great for us boxing fans though!

What Lewis did and does not get enough credit for in my opinion was lock the division down and stop a whole bunch of very talented fighters from becoming the next big thing. For example, Lewis in Vlad's place would have fought Tyson Fury by now. Lewis took on all commers...when Briggs became a threat Lewis fought him, when Michael Grant became a threat, ditto, Morrison, Tua, the list goes on and on...Lewis unlike Klitsko fought everyone the fans percieved as a threat and he did it consistantly.

People with 20 20 hindsight will say things like "well...Briggs Tua etc never became great fighters"...well Lewis may well had something to do with that as he exposed many of these guys who everybody thought would destroy him I might add.

Lewis fought the best of his era when he was ready and what people often do is claim AFTER Lewis beat an opponent soundly that the opponent was garbage. Finally Lewis at his worse, shut up critics regarding his chin when he basically took Vitalie Klitko's best shots, and started to methodically beat him up. Great champion, not a top 5 imo but right on the cusp of being in very elite status.