Sonnyboy's Lennox Lewis appreciation thread.

[sonnyboyx2]

I don't know if he beats a prime Tyson though, with his power and Lewis' chin issues. He would probably prepare well and take him seriously at least. We've seen it only takes maybe a couple of solid shots to hurt Lewis. If he gets past him and Holyfield though in the mid to late '80s, then yeah he could've been at least top 3-5.

Do you really believe Lewis could beat 80s Tyson & Holyfield??

Let us not kid ourselves here, Lewis got poleaxed by Oliver McCall in 1994 yet McCall was a bum/journeyman who had been beaten by Tony Tucker when Tucker was in the worst condition of his entire career. McCall had been hammered from pillar to post by Buster Douglas, he had been humiliated and beat up by Mike "Bounty" Hunter, yet that same McCall walked right through Lennox Lewis (25-0) McCall then lost his title to old Frank Bruno...

Mike Tyson of the late 1980s was a different person to the Mike Tyson of 2002. The 2002 version had served three custodial sentences totaling over 5yrs in jail. He was addicted to prescription anti-depressants, alcohol, ******* & cannabis.. Tyson threw half a dozen punches in the first 30 seconds looking terrible, then soaked up the punishment until the fight was over. He congratulated Lewis saying, "Thenkyou for the money Lennox" .. which tells you all you need to know about that fiasco.... Tyson of 85-90 was in incredible physical condition. Trainer Kevin Rooney and manager Bill Cayton all brought the best out of Tyson, who at that stage of his career would be a tough fight for any heavyweight in history. Lewis was a first round knock out for that version of Mike Tyson and a four round knock out at best for Evander Holyfield.

[Axl Rose]

Lennox Lewis wasn't a really geat fighter until late in hes career. Hes fights with Bruno, Tucker, McCall tells me there is no way he would have beaten Tyson, Bowe or even maybe Holyfield at that point.

Hes victory over Ruddock was great, but Ruddock who went in completely open for a overhand right, wich was Lennox best punch.

Later into the 90s he became much better and could have given Bowe and Tyson a very tough argument.

[Zaroku]

How would things have been different if Lennox Lewis decided to turn pro in 1985, after the '84 Olympics?

Tyson would have knocked him out!

[sonnyboyx2]

Instead of hitting the big time in 1993, he wouldve hit it 4 years earlier in 1989...

Which would earn him that shot at Tyson in 1990 when Tyson's life was in shambles and he wouldve Buster Douglas'd Mike just the same. I honestly see Lennox going on a Decade long Joe Louis like run with maybe one surprise loss in which he wouldve immediately avenged. Something like 50-1 and being hailed as a top 2 heavyweight all time.

You are giving Lewis a very easy ride of it, yet the reality was Lewis never had an easy time of it in his whole career. Even when fighting Class C fighters, Lewis struggled badly. He struggled with Mavrovic, Briggs, Bruno & Mercer. was knocked out by mediocre journeyman McCall & Rahman. His victory over Ruddock was slightly tainted as Ruddock was "Damaged Goods" after two brutal beatings from Tyson..Botha, Grant, Akinwande & Morrison all failed when moved to world class level... Yet here is you claiming he would be champion for over 11yrs ?? ... Lewis was unfortunate to only get a draw against old Holyfield in 1999 yet Holyfield was "ROBBED" of his titles in their rematch, clearly beating Lewis with ease. Yet Lewis record as champion from 2000-2003 was far from impressive.. Lewis cannot be classed as a champion when picking a belt out of the garbage can or fighting for some vacant belt like he did in 97. So we have to take his title reign from 2000-2003 as his championship years..Again he was poleaxed by a mediocre journeyman. fought unworthy opponents in Grant & Botha along with David Tua (the fattest man to ever fight for the title)... To claim Lewis would go on a Joe Louis like run against the likes of Prime:

Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Larry Holmes
Michael Spinks
Tim Witherspoon
Tony Tubbs
Carl "Truth" Willams
Buster Douglas
Greg Page
Gerry Cooney
Trevor Berbick
George Foreman
Bonecrusher Smith
Michael Moorer
Frank Bruno

Is simply not being realistic. On their best day they were all Class A operators who were a tough fight for any champion in history. For you to just claim Lewis would "run through them" is laughable... Get a grip mate. climb off the guy's ****!

[billeau2]

Lewis was prudent and became a professional when he was ready. Lewis being in the shark tank when there was a lot of great comp would have been intersting for sure but the fact is he would have not been able at that time to distinguish himself. It would have been great for us boxing fans though!

What Lewis did and does not get enough credit for in my opinion was lock the division down and stop a whole bunch of very talented fighters from becoming the next big thing. For example, Lewis in Vlad's place would have fought Tyson Fury by now. Lewis took on all commers...when Briggs became a threat Lewis fought him, when Michael Grant became a threat, ditto, Morrison, Tua, the list goes on and on...Lewis unlike Klitsko fought everyone the fans percieved as a threat and he did it consistantly.

People with 20 20 hindsight will say things like "well...Briggs Tua etc never became great fighters"...well Lewis may well had something to do with that as he exposed many of these guys who everybody thought would destroy him I might add.

Lewis fought the best of his era when he was ready and what people often do is claim AFTER Lewis beat an opponent soundly that the opponent was garbage. Finally Lewis at his worse, shut up critics regarding his chin when he basically took Vitalie Klitko's best shots, and started to methodically beat him up. Great champion, not a top 5 imo but right on the cusp of being in very elite status.

[sonnyboyx2]

Lewis was prudent and became a professional when he was ready. Lewis being in the shark tank when there was a lot of great comp would have been intersting for sure but the fact is he would have not been able at that time to distinguish himself. It would have been great for us boxing fans though!

What Lewis did and does not get enough credit for in my opinion was lock the division down and stop a whole bunch of very talented fighters from becoming the next big thing. For example, Lewis in Vlad's place would have fought Tyson Fury by now. Lewis took on all commers...when Briggs became a threat Lewis fought him, when Michael Grant became a threat, ditto, Morrison, Tua, the list goes on and on...Lewis unlike Klitsko fought everyone the fans percieved as a threat and he did it consistantly.

People with 20 20 hindsight will say things like "well...Briggs Tua etc never became great fighters"...well Lewis may well had something to do with that as he exposed many of these guys who everybody thought would destroy him I might add.

Lewis fought the best of his era when he was ready and what people often do is claim AFTER Lewis beat an opponent soundly that the opponent was garbage. Finally Lewis at his worse, shut up critics regarding his chin when he basically took Vitalie Klitko's best shots, and started to methodically beat him up. Great champion, not a top 5 imo but right on the cusp of being in very elite status.

You are delusioned mate... Your claiming "Lewis took on all comers".."Fought the best of his era"???..... claiming Lewis opponents were Garbage is not folly.

Phil Jackson
Lionel Butler
Zelko Mavrovic
Henry Akinwande
Justin Fortune
Donavan Ruddock (Damaged Goods)
Hasim Rahman
Andrew Golota
David Tua
Oliver McCall
Shannon Briggs
Michael Grant
Frans Botha

Nothing but a bunch of exposed journeymen Class C fighters

Lewis beat Ruddock in 1992 Ruddock was "Damaged Goods" after two brutal beatings from Mike Tyson..... over the next 11yrs (92-2003) all these fighters held versions of the heavyweight title:

Wlad Klitschko
Michael Moorer
Evander Holyfield 3 times
Mike Tyson
Bruce Seldon
George Foreman
Corrie Sanders
Rid**** Bowe
Vitali Klitschko
Herbie Hide
John Ruiz
Michael Bent
Chris Byrd
Henry Akinwande
Tommy Morrison (HIV)
Tim Witherspoon (former champ highly ranked 95-97)

Lewis avoided and turned down fights with most of these fighters. Claiming them all to be "Afraid of him" even tho Lewis was offered career high paydays to fight them..All of Lewis opponents (93-2003) pale in comparison to the list above... Lewis was an opportunist who avoided every fighter who was "At the Top of his Game"...Lewis may well have beaten all those fighters, but his KO losses to journeyman McCall & Rahman, make that seem very unlikely...

[billeau2]

You are delusioned mate... Your claiming "Lewis took on all comers".."Fought the best of his era"???..... claiming Lewis opponents were Garbage is not folly.

Phil Jackson
Lionel Butler
Zelko Mavrovic
Henry Akinwande
Justin Fortune
Donavan Ruddock (Damaged Goods)
Hasim Rahman
Andrew Golota
David Tua
Oliver McCall
Shannon Briggs
Michael Grant
Frans Botha

Nothing but a bunch of exposed journeymen Class C fighters

Lewis beat Ruddock in 1992 Ruddock was "Damaged Goods" after two brutal beatings from Mike Tyson..... over the next 11yrs (92-2003) all these fighters held versions of the heavyweight title:

Wlad Klitschko
Michael Moorer
Evander Holyfield 3 times
Mike Tyson
Bruce Seldon
George Foreman
Corrie Sanders
Rid**** Bowe
Vitali Klitschko
Herbie Hide
John Ruiz
Michael Bent
Chris Byrd
Henry Akinwande
Tommy Morrison (HIV)
Tim Witherspoon (former champ highly ranked 95-97)

Lewis avoided and turned down fights with most of these fighters. Claiming them all to be "Afraid of him" even tho Lewis was offered career high paydays to fight them..All of Lewis opponents (93-2003) pale in comparison to the list above... Lewis was an opportunist who avoided every fighter who was "At the Top of his Game"...Lewis may well have beaten all those fighters, but his KO losses to journeyman McCall & Rahman, make that seem very unlikely...

There is no point debating you regarding lewis because you are not rational. We can agree to disagree. You, Dan and a few others seem to not be able to accept a difference of opinion and thats a pity. Sometimes a difference of opinion exists that cannot be constructively bridged. Better to just accept this divide. At any rate there is no point responding and I will take the high road here and say "ok Sonny"

[sonnyboyx2]

There is no point debating you regarding lewis because you are not rational. We can agree to disagree. You, Dan and a few others seem to not be able to accept a difference of opinion and thats a pity. Sometimes a difference of opinion exists that cannot be constructively bridged. Better to just accept this divide. At any rate there is no point responding and I will take the high road here and say "ok Sonny"

sorry if the truth has hurt you Bill... i must have burst your bubble with my comments. i was hoping you may have replied constructivley to advance this topic.... What is it i have said which you don't agree with mate?... of course i can accept a difference of opinion, you rate Lewis very highly and that is your prerogative. whereas i don't rate him anywhere near as highly as you and joeyzags rate him, but that should not stop the debate... i have posted what i believe to be my case for "What would happen if Lewis turned pro in 1985"... you obviously disagree with what i have posted, so tell me what it is you disagree with mate?....and we can debate your points or for that matter my points... But for you to scream foul in the opening round, is like me scoring an early KO.

[billeau2]

sorry if the truth has hurt you Bill... i must have burst your bubble with my comments. i was hoping you may have replied constructivley to advance this topic.... What is it i have said which you don't agree with mate?... of course i can accept a difference of opinion, you rate Lewis very highly and that is your prerogative. whereas i don't rate him anywhere near as highly as you and joeyzags rate him, but that should not stop the debate... i have posted what i believe to be my case for "What would happen if Lewis turned pro in 1985"... you obviously disagree with what i have posted, so tell me what it is you disagree with mate?....and we can debate your points or for that matter my points... But for you to scream foul in the opening round, is like me scoring an early KO.

Well...All you have to do is go to any of a variety of threads where this debate took place and you were owned... Its the same debate, it happens on every Lewis thread and the same result of you being shown to be unrealistic regarding Lewis' comp...or I could cut and paste them for you?

So there is a solution to your dilemna Sonny wasn't that nice of me? Now in a desperate attempt to validate your ridiculous assertion this is what I want you to do: Make some ad hominum attack on me, say how some of your best friends are Lewis fans or some other indication that you are hardly biased, rinse and repeat, telling me how ignorant I am, are you following me?

Then I want you to tell me how I won't debate you and rinse and repeat, about how you are not biased and about how every Lewis victory was because of some force that aided lewis...and then you can become an object of laughter as you show how Tua, Morrison, Razor Ruddock OH wait poor beat up Razor!!!! Briggs, Holyfield oh wait!!! poor old washed up Holyfield, were all class c fighters ok?

Then I want you to tell me about how Ruiz and Byrd were giants among men, guys feared by Lewis and ducked ok?

Then rinse and repeat....yada yada yada....Now be a good boy and do as I say.

[rightsideup]

People seem to forget that a young amateur sparred with tyson and was asked to leave. Lennox had a fine career and did things at his pace