Greatest Super-Middle of All Times

[Pago007]

Calzagje by a landslide then ward/jones lastly froch

[joseph5620]

Rtf

The Dawson fight is a difficult one to put in perspective. Ward looked so good, Dawson looked so bad, and it was apparent that Dawson had made a terrible mistake agreeing to 168. And like Bute, Dawson has been totally lackluster since.

To me a more apt comparison is Calzaghe-Lacy. Nobody was dismissing it before the fight, then a career destroying beating rewrote history. If a fighter goes against someone who is the betting favorite over him and nobody thinks it's a mismatch before, can it really be held against the winner when the loser's career goes down the drain after?

I agree with all of that. I remember talking to somebody about how highly regarded Michael Grant was before the Lewis fight. Many thought he could upset Lewis mainly because Lewis was quite a bit older and Grant was the so called "heir" to the throne.

In hindsight it looks ridiculous but it doesn't change the perspective at the time.


I also remember a lot of people picking Lacy. Many on the old AOL message board lol.

[Scott9945]

Rtf

I agree with all of that. I remember talking to somebody about how highly regarded Michael Grant was before the Lewis fight. Many thought he could upset Lewis mainly because Lewis was quite a bit older and Grant was the so called "heir" to the throne.

In hindsight it looks ridiculous but it doesn't change the perspective at the time.


I also remember a lot of people picking Lacy. Many on the old AOL message board lol.

Lacy, like Bute, was favored to beat a UK fighter in England. That alone tells you that most expected them to win.

[Pigeons]

Andre Ward has the best SMW resume IMO. Undefeated run through Mikkel Kessler (5x SMW champion), Arthur Abraham (2x SMW champion), Carl Froch (4x SMW champion), and Chad Dawson (lineal LHW champion).

He whooped those 4 men in a 3-year span, and he whooped them beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Froch's resume of wins is close, but he finishes behind Andre Ward because he clearly lost their head-to-head matchup, he lost the first Kessler fight, and he won an unjust decision vs. Andre Dirrell. Furthermore, Carl Froch has admitted he cannot beat Andre Ward in the ring and will never seek a rematch against him. Ward beat Froch physically and mentally.

[New England]

He doesn't have better wins. Not disputed that.

Froch and Kessler are the best wins between them.

But he doesn't have much more than that.

Whereas Froch has Taylor, Dirrell, Kessler Pascal, Bute, Groves x2, Abraham.

Ward has clear edge in quality, Froch had the clear edge in quantity.

It's a non issue because now Ward's out his contract Ward will fly ahead. He could have already if he wasn't side lined for the past 3 years.

that is all he has. dirrell landed the cleaner punches, and generally won on press row cards.

ward has the b level wins, too. abraham, bika, rodriguez, green, dawson @ 168. he also has the A level wins; prime froch and kessler.

that's 7 notable wins vs 8, and ward has two A level wins, including froch himself.


froch having a couple more B level wins, without A level wins, makes him a better fighter? froch lost his A level fights.


ward has a better resume. he'll be remembered as the better fighter in every sense of the word.

[rorymac]

I'm not going to let anyone claim that Froch is better than Calzaghe.

[TBear]

Lacy, like Bute, was favored to beat a UK fighter in England. That alone tells you that most expected them to win.

Previous to the Calzaghe fight I felt Lacy was very limited. I remember The Ring Magazine saying it also, comparing his skills to another prospect, Jermain Taylor. I personally expected both Lacy and Bute to lose based on the level of competition they had faced previous to their UK losses.

[IronDanHamza]

that is all he has. dirrell landed the cleaner punches, and generally won on press row cards.

ward has the b level wins, too. abraham, bika, rodriguez, green, dawson @ 168. he also has the A level wins; prime froch and kessler.

that's 7 notable wins vs 8, and ward has two A level wins, including froch himself.


froch having a couple more B level wins, without A level wins, makes him a better fighter? froch lost his A level fights.


ward has a better resume. he'll be remembered as the better fighter in every sense of the word.

Bika and Abraham, sure.

Rodriguez? No.

Dawson? No.

If you're going to include Green then obviously you have to include Johnson for Froch.

And press row was split on Froch-Dirrell.

[IronDanHamza]

I'm not going to let anyone claim that Froch is better than Calzaghe.

Why not?

It's not a outlandish thing to say in the slightest.

[Pigeons]

I'm not sure why Bute is considered a notable win. He was overhyped due to his punching prowess. Both times he stepped up, he did not come close to victory. I mean his best wins are Sakio Bika, Edison Miranda, and Librado Andrade twice (clinging for his life the first time). He was exposed to be a weak chinned, empty hearted fighter. It seems that he is considered a good win because of the hype he received on internet message boards. Having a nice skill set doesn't translate if you are unable to put it into action.

The Taylor win is another head scratcher for me. He was 1-2 coming into the Froch fight having been brutally KO'd and losing a competitive decision to Pavlik. It seems like people wiped the slate clean just because Taylor jumped a weight class. Back to back fights vs. Froch and Abraham proved that he not only wasn't a supper middleweight, but that he was a finished fighter.

I like Froch's victories vs. Pascal and Kessler. I also note his victories vs. Dirrell and the Groves rematch even though both fighters are still largely unproven.