Muhammad Ali was not a great fighter

[butterfly1964]

butterfly likes anyone ali beat.

my top 3 favorite fighters besides ali aren't even ali opponents so shut your mouth.

[SuzieQ49]

joe louis would knockout liston

[butterfly1964]

joe louis would knockout liston

yeah, just like he knocked out schmeling!(the first time)

[K-DOGG]

Back for a post or two.

Okay, here's the main reason a prime Liston loses to a 32 year old Ali: testicular fotitude.

If anything we learned about Ali over the course of his career, it was that he would bring it. The more he was challenged, the more he dug down and came back. Looke at the Frazier series. Though Ali lost the first one, the ebb and flow of the fight showed the heart and will of both men. After Frazier had Ali nearly out in the 11th, Ali came back and won the next three rounds and after Frazier knocked him down in the 15th, Ali jumped back up and was in the fight, refusing to give up. In the Thrilla in Manila, Ali felt like quiting going into the 10th due to the incedible body work Frazier was doing and in insufferable heat; but he ****** it up and came back to stop Frazier.

The Ali of '60 to '67 was a physcial marvel; but after he lost his fleetness of foot and his incredible reflexes slowed, we saw the beast beneath the beauty, or, to quote Ferdie Pachecho, the gargoyle underneat that beautiful face.

Liston was a mean, rough customer on the outside, with an incredible jab, decent speed, and bonecrunching power; but ultimately, he failed when gut-check time came around. True, there was that one fight he lost before Clay I where he fought with a broken jaw and credit to him for that....not fighter is a coward for how else could he do what he does; but against Clay, when he realized he was losing, he cheated with the foreign substance that he rubbed into Clay's eyes and ultimately quit when Clay started coming back on him...(Clay fighting through blindness is another example of testicular fortitude. The fact that Liston looked for the easy way out not once; but twice, speaks of what lay within the man.

Liston did not have that within. He was tough, true; but there is that certain something that separates the great from the very good. Liston, ultimately, despite his talent, was merely very good. Liston, on his best day, was merely half the champion Muhammad Ali was, if that much, and a 32 year old Ali still had enough physical skill to beat any ranking heavyweight in the world and he would have skinned the big ugly bear at his best...especially with the mindset he must have had that night, which also must be taken into account.

Boxing is 90% Mental and a skilled fighter as a 32 year old Ali, with Ali's mindset beats a peak bully any day of the week. Boxing is about so much more than physics; and anyone who understands what made Ali great knows that.

32 year old Ali by 10th or 11th round TKO.

[butterfly1964]

Back for a post or two.

Okay, here's the main reason a prime Liston loses to a 32 year old Ali: testicular fotitude.

If anything we learned about Ali over the course of his career, it was that he would bring it. The more he was challenged, the more he dug down and came back. Looke at the Frazier series. Though Ali lost the first one, the ebb and flow of the fight showed the heart and will of both men. After Frazier had Ali nearly out in the 11th, Ali came back and won the next three rounds and after Frazier knocked him down in the 15th, Ali jumped back up and was in the fight, refusing to give up. In the Thrilla in Manila, Ali felt like quiting going into the 10th due to the incedible body work Frazier was doing and in insufferable heat; but he ****** it up and came back to stop Frazier.

The Ali of '60 to '67 was a physcial marvel; but after he lost his fleetness of foot and his incredible reflexes slowed, we saw the beast beneath the beauty, or, to quote Ferdie Pachecho, the gargoyle underneat that beautiful face.

Liston was a mean, rough customer on the outside, with an incredible jab, decent speed, and bonecrunching power; but ultimately, he failed when gut-check time came around. True, there was that one fight he lost before Clay I where he fought with a broken jaw and credit to him for that....not fighter is a coward for how else could he do what he does; but against Clay, when he realized he was losing, he cheated with the foreign substance that he rubbed into Clay's eyes and ultimately quit when Clay started coming back on him...(Clay fighting through blindness is another example of testicular fortitude).

Liston did not have that within. He was tough, true; but there is that certain something that separates the great from the very good. Liston, ultimately, despite his talent, was merely very good. Liston, on his best day, was merely half the champion Muhammad Ali was, if that much, and a 32 year old Ali still had enough physical skill to beat any ranking heavyweight in the world and he would have skinned the big ugly beat at his best...especially with the mindset he must have had that night, which also must be taken into account.

Boxing is 90% Mental and a skilled fighter as a 32 year old Ali, with Ali's mindset beats a peak bully any day of the week. Boxing is about so much more than physics; and anyone who understands what made Ali great knows that.

32 year old Ali by 10th or 11th round TKO.

prime liston had tons of heart. he didn't care about boxing anymore by the time he fought clay.

[K-DOGG]

prime liston had tons of heart. he didn't care about boxing anymore by the time he fought clay.

Me thinks you should read the quote within your signature more often.

[butterfly1964]

Me thinks you should read the quote within your signature more often.

liston is underrated. he destroyed the hw division worse than tyson did and in a better era. the guy was a beast!

[SuzieQ49]

buttefly,

fact is you dont want to learn. you are not open minded. you are impossible to teach because u are so incredibly bias toward alis era. you think any heavyweight from alis era is godly like. if u want to learn about boxing, u have to become more open minded and see the other side of things.

[butterfly1964]

buttefly,

fact is you dont want to learn. you are not open minded. you are impossible to teach because u are so incredibly bias toward alis era. you think any heavyweight from alis era is godly like. if u want to learn about boxing, u have to become more open minded and see the other side of things.

i only rank foreman, liston, and frazier up there. unless those are the only guys ali ever fought.

[Heckler]

prime liston was not slow. he had quick hands and cut off the ring extremely well. ali wouldn't be fast enough at 32 years of age to avoid liston for 15 rounds. liston wears him down and catches him in the later rounds for a stoppage.

Sorry from what ive seen Liston wasn't spectacular at cutting off the ring. Irrespective of when he fought Ali his traits remained. Watch Him fight Ali in 64', he didn't step infront of Ali and block his escape route he merely followed him. Liston would not wear him down over 15 rounds, he didn't apply the PRESSURE that Frazier did. He didn't use sustained body attacks nor did he have the relentless work rate that was required to neutralise Ali. Ali's worse enemy was pressure and a fighter that essentially smothered him. Liston would follow Ali around the ring popping out that long jab, which would bother Ali, but irrespective Ali's handspeed would allow him to beat Liston to the punch and essentially overwhelm him. Look at the fighters that beat Ali (When he still ahd something left in the tank), Norton (twice), and frazier. Frazier applied relentless pressure, had an incredibly high workrate. Norton had a crabstyle defense that bothered Ali, a brilliant workrate (he outhustled Ali) and he applied constant pressure. Any offensive orthodox boxer that did not have an exceptional workrate, apply relentless pressure, or could match handspeed with Ali didn't matchup well to him at all.