Muhammad Ali was not a great fighter

[butterfly1964]

a 30 year old ali was getting his ears boxed off by a 37 year old patterson until the fight had to be stopped on cuts.

" I thought patterson would be finished in two rounds. but he was in superb condition. If I'd listened to the press, he would have given me a worse lickin in the first five rounds."- muhammad ali on 2nd floyd patterson fight in 1972


- a peak 1958 liston was a FORCE, he was a lot faster, better movment, better defense. a peak sonny liston knocks out a 70s ali who is overated in fantasy matchups.

- the 1960s ali was special, the 1970s ali accomplished alot, but he does not match up well head to head. his reflexes and speed was gone. liston would have no trouble boxing with ali, and liston was a greater puncher than foreman.


look what ron lyle did to muhammad ali for 11 rounds, lyle was a poor mans sonny liston.

the lyle fight was close, but it wasn't that bad. but yes prime liston beats zaire ali any day.

[Heckler]

Liston would not stop Ali in any point of his career from 66-74. He was a relatively slow, almost lumbering bruiser. He had good boxing skills and great power, however Ali's ringsmarts, handspeed and ability to absorb punishment would offset this. Unlike Lyle Liston actually fought in a measured manner, something that is wrong against Ali. If you don't apply enough pressure you give Ali room to breathe and thus he will control the pace of the fight. I have no doubt in my mind that Ali would win. Ali's biggest problem would not be Listons power, it would be his jab.

[Heckler]

Floyd Patterson is irrelevant to a sonny liston vs post layoff ali debate. He was a swarming, bobbing and weaving opponent with excellent handspeed. He wasn't at the top of his game, but he still implemented the style that troubled Ali throughout his career.

[butterfly1964]

Liston would not stop Ali in any point of his career from 66-74. He was a relatively slow, almost lumbering bruiser. He had good boxing skills and great power, however Ali's ringsmarts, handspeed and ability to absorb punishment would offset this. Unlike Lyle Liston actually fought in a measured manner, something that is wrong against Ali. If you don't apply enough pressure you give Ali room to breathe and thus he will control the pace of the fight. I have no doubt in my mind that Ali would win. Ali's biggest problem would not be Listons power, it would be his jab.

prime liston was not slow. he had quick hands and cut off the ring extremely well. ali wouldn't be fast enough at 32 years of age to avoid liston for 15 rounds. liston wears him down and catches him in the later rounds for a stoppage.

[Southpaw Stinger]

prime liston was not slow. he had quick hands and cut off the ring extremely well. ali wouldn't be fast enough at 32 years of age to avoid liston for 15 rounds. liston wears him down and catches him in the later rounds for a stoppage.

Why do you like Liston so much. It's shocks me that you pick him over one of the best versions of Ali.

[butterfly1964]

Why do you like Liston so much. It's shocks me that you pick him over one of the best versions of Ali.

liston is the most underrated hw of all-time by far. besides foreman and shavers, he probably hit harder than anyone. he had a granite chin(he took a dive against ali so that doesn't count, he took punches from williams without blinking). liston would beat any version of any fighter except 1964-1967 ali.

[SuzieQ49]

ahh now ur going overboard, liston had nowhere near a granite chin.

- even 175lb marty marshall knocked liston down

[SuzieQ49]

butterfly likes anyone ali beat. by picking liston over a 1974 ali, it makes ali's victory over liston seem even better.


you realize in his all time heavyweight rankings he rates foreman, frazier, liston 2, 3 and 4.

[butterfly1964]

ahh now ur going overboard, liston had nowhere near a granite chin.

- even 175lb marty marshall knocked liston down

marshall was 180+, and i'm sure he was off-balance.

[Southpaw Stinger]

liston is the most underrated hw of all-time by far. besides foreman and shavers, he probably hit harder than anyone. he had a granite chin(he took a dive against ali so that doesn't count, he took punches from williams without blinking). liston would beat any version of any fighter except 1964-1967 ali.

I think you overate Liston quite a lot. He wasn't that great. He has been underated in the past but no way is 64 - 67 Ali the only one able to beat Liston.