Ike Ibeabuchi VS Joe Louis

[TBear]

We are not talking about resumes, styles is what I'm basing this on. Ike would be bigger, stronger, had a chin, great stamina, great work rate,, throwing a 100 punches a round every round would cause Louis trouble. And for the record I too would take a prime Witherspoon but lyles gets laid out

Resume, or who they fought and who they beat are the best way to measure how they would do in a fantasy match. Assuming any fighter can win a suggested match based on unfulfilled potential or how they might have been if they were tested is flawed in theory IMO.


We did not see Ike in with many of the top heavyweights like Holyfield and Lewis. If we did and he failed miserably, this would probably not be a discussion. But the fact the we never seen him tested beyond Tua and Byrd, we don't know.

Hard to base a debate on what we don't know.

[dchampishere]

[QUOTE=Sugar Adam Ali;14147627]

I'm not going to try and debate you since you were in his camp, but all I'm going to say is that

1. U can say tau is an ok puncher but fact is he is basically universally recognized as a top 100 atg punchers, ring epsn, u name it, he is always rated very high historically in terms of punching power

2. U say if tau couldn't catch u with the leaping left hook,,, but irony is he caught Ike with that shot plus a lot more. Tua hit Ike with everything and could not hurt him...

3. May I ask what training camp for Ike you were in, which fight

Yes you may, I was in Ike's camp for the Byrd fight.
Byrd got me a lot of work because I could emulate his style very well.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Resume, or who they fought and who they beat are the best way to measure how they would do in a fantasy match. Assuming any fighter can win a suggested match based on unfulfilled potential or how they might have been if they were tested is flawed in theory IMO.


We did not see Ike in with many of the top heavyweights like Holyfield and Lewis. If we did and he failed miserably, this would probably not be a discussion. But the fact the we never seen him tested beyond Tua and Byrd, we don't know.

Hard to base a debate on what we don't know.

I'm not going to try and debate what u say because most I agree with, just going to say that yes Ike is kinda unknown but same can be said about Louis fighting a guy like Ike... Ike is proven in same ways, only 2 legit wins but Byrd and tua were top 10 heavys of their era, and IMO proved he wasn't just hype, not saying he is an atg or hof type guy, just a legit fighter. And based on his style vs Louis, I think Ike can overwhelm him in the later rounds

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Imagine cotto vs margs as a heavyweight fight... Louis would outbox Ike for the most part but get overwhelmed late

[StarshipTrooper]

Once again I will ask the question, who on Louis' resume had the size and strength and endurance and chin that Ike had and threw 100 punches every round.. Louis never faced anyone like that, so I don't get how it's so easy to say that joe would punch him and stop Ike...

We don't know about the hundred punches a round because they didn't keep punch stats back then. It's certainly just as possible Louis did face someone that active as not. As for size, strength, endurance, and chin, look no further than Max Baer. He was certainly a bigger puncher than Ike, was only legitimately KOed by Louis himself, and was just as physically imposing as Ike.

[TBear]

I'm not going to try and debate what u say because most I agree with, just going to say that yes Ike is kinda unknown but same can be said about Louis fighting a guy like Ike... Ike is proven in same ways, only 2 legit wins but Byrd and tua were top 10 heavys of their era, and IMO proved he wasn't just hype, not saying he is an atg or hof type guy, just a legit fighter. And based on his style vs Louis, I think Ike can overwhelm him in the later rounds

It is all cool, I have always tried to respect different opinions even if I strongly disagree like I do here.

[mickey malone]

It is all cool, I have always tried to respect different opinions even if I strongly disagree like I do here.

Try as you will, but I've noticed, the fanboy fantasy threads all seem to appear during the school holidays, then seem to drag on and on without any intervention whatsoever

BS provide a fantasy fight section for the little ones, so why, as learned adults, are we having to act as babysitters.. Put them in a play pen, and let them get on with it
Most kids don't like vegetables, mainly because of what they look like, or the fact, they've never tried any.. They'll discredit a tomato because it's got pips in it, and they won't eat porridge because there aren't any choccy bits..
But as they grow and mature, all of these things become quite acceptable, quite tasty even!.. No more caking things in ketchup and artificial colourings
However, they do learn.... Eventually

[Mike Haynes]

David Tua won that fight by at least 2 rounds. Joe Louis would beat Ike's slow punching ass to the punch all night.

[billeau2]

[QUOTE=Sugar Adam Ali;14147399]We are not talking about resumes, styles is what I'm basing this on. Ike would be bigger, stronger, had a chin, great stamina, great work rate,, throwing a 100 punches a round every round would cause Louis trouble. And for the record I too would take a prime Witherspoon but lyles gets laid out

I'm not saying tau is that great,, he was very limited and showed vs the top guys, but he could hit like a mule, and Ike took it like it was nothing.. People act like Louis would wreck him with punches yet a super hard puncher like tau that hit harder than Louis couldnt even buckle him...
I just don't see how Ike gets stopped like Louis...


Once again I will ask the question, who on Louis' resume had the size and strength and endurance and chin that Ike had and threw 100 punches every round.. Louis never faced anyone like that, so I don't get how it's so easy to say that joe would punch him and stop Ike...

Agreed about Witherspoon and Lyle.

You think Tua hit harder than Louis? thats at the very least debatable.

Work rate in general back then was much greater. Endurance and punches thrown was not a real issue. Louis fought a lot of guys who had those qualities, the fact that he never specifically fought a volume puncher with a great chin in combo is that really relevant? he fought Conn for example, who was a problem for him, until he wasn't. He fought Galeinta who had a great beard and dealt with it.

The substance of your argument suggests that the mere fact that a great fighter like Louis, because he never dealt with a specific combo of the traits Ibuchi had, would be flumoxed by Ibuchi. The fact of the matter is that even when an older Louis fought guys like Charles, Walcott and Marciano...the only time Louis was really at a disadvantage gained by a matchup of style & technique was the Schmelling fight. And this disadvantage was not because of Schmelling's chin, nor was it due to a volume of blows thrown by Max....it was specifically a technical foible involving Louis telegraphing his right.

[billeau2]

We don't know about the hundred punches a round because they didn't keep punch stats back then. It's certainly just as possible Louis did face someone that active as not. As for size, strength, endurance, and chin, look no further than Max Baer. He was certainly a bigger puncher than Ike, was only legitimately KOed by Louis himself, and was just as physically imposing as Ike.

Also, generally speaking guys threw a lot more punches, this was established by counting punches per a round in fights from that era. I was thinking of using Max also. Max was, among other things, a better version of Tua. Tua the left hook and Max the right.....He was indeed a bigger puncher than Ike.