Ike Ibeabuchi VS Joe Louis

[Sugar Adam Ali]

[QUOTE=billeau2;14146023]

The Schmeling fight was specific: Schmelling found a gap when louis threw his right and it became telegraphed. Louis could not adjust and Schmelling used this technical advantage. it was what it was. its not like Schmelling dismantled Louis piece by piece....he used one weakness and exploited it. This shows how good Schmelling was more than how bad Louis was. By the time it became evident what Schmelling as doing Louis had been hit repeatedly and was gunshy with his right. Louis was not exposed....rather his best weapon was taken from him, he may as well have fought Schmelling with one arm. This information may be an opinion but it happens to be the opinion of Schmelling!

I did state that ike would not be smart enough to do what schmelling did..

Tua was not the methodical puncher/combo puncher, nor did he get the extension on his shots that Louis did....Most people are saying that Louis punched hard enough to damage Ike...that is the argument. Galenta had a great chin....there comes a point where even a great chin does not prevent damage.

Tua had his flaws, but tua got full extension vs ike,, watch the last few rounds and ike is just standing there trading huge shots with tua,, Tua def put all he had into them.. Tua may not be able to get his shots off consistently thru out his career, but in that fight, he landed his best bombs vs ike, and barely hurt him.(i do think it rattled ike's brain and caused alot of his mental problems)

So the argument would be that Louis would hit Ike a lot and stop him because Louis, as one of the best punchers, against a guy who could punch and who had a good chin, would come out with a sore hand! while Ike would be the worse for that sore hand.

So Ike would fold up and get ko'd because louis is great puncher,, yet that discounts the fact that ike has never been hurt, and took full shots from tua for 12 rounds... There is only a handful of guys in the history of the sport that would have been able to take tua's shots like ike did,,

I totally understand how one could think louis would win, just IMO ike is a horrible style matchup for him with his combination of size, stamina, chin, power, endurance

[Kiddoe]

Joe Louis dominated the entire heavyweight division for a decade. Ike Ibeabuchi beat two top ten contenders. There is no comparison. You can't compare a prospect (and a good one, no doubt) to one of the top two heavyweights of all time. Boxing has changed so much that I can't make a comparison of Joe's opponents to Ike. But I'm damn sure that Ibeabuchi never faced anyone with the offensive skills of Joe Louis. And please don't tell me that Tua is even in the conversation.

Sure he beat some top 10 contenders... One of them later became the IBF heavyweight champ.

[TBear]

I can't imagine that boxing fans here have such a low regard for Louis that they think Ike with a limited resume belongs in the same ring or a fight like this has any chance of being competitive. So often people see potential and confuse it with accomplishment. Personally I don't think Ike would beat a Tim Witherspoon or even a Ron Lyle, much less, a fighter like Joe Louis.

[GeneralZod]

I can't imagine that boxing fans here have such a low regard for Louis that they think Ike with a limited resume belongs in the same ring or a fight like this has any chance of being competitive. So often people see potential and confuse it with accomplishment. Personally I don't think Ike would beat a Tim Witherspoon or even a Ron Lyle, much less, a fighter like Joe Louis.

Ike and Lyle sounds like a pretty fitting bout now that i think about it

[Scott9945]

Sure he beat some top 10 contenders... One of them later became the IBF heavyweight champ.

I did acknowledge that Ike beat two top 10 contenders. But definitely not three. The rest of his opponents wouldn't even be near a top 50 rating. If you have some time you can count how many top 10 contenders Joe Louis beat in his brilliant career.

[billeau2]

[QUOTE=Sugar Adam Ali;14146104]

I did state that ike would not be smart enough to do what schmelling did..




Tua had his flaws, but tua got full extension vs ike,, watch the last few rounds and ike is just standing there trading huge shots with tua,, Tua def put all he had into them.. Tua may not be able to get his shots off consistently thru out his career, but in that fight, he landed his best bombs vs ike, and barely hurt him.(i do think it rattled ike's brain and caused alot of his mental problems)



So Ike would fold up and get ko'd because louis is great puncher,, yet that discounts the fact that ike has never been hurt, and took full shots from tua for 12 rounds... There is only a handful of guys in the history of the sport that would have been able to take tua's shots like ike did,,

I totally understand how one could think louis would win, just IMO ike is a horrible style matchup for him with his combination of size, stamina, chin, power, endurance

You seem to have a much higher regard for Tua than most. Rahman had Tu handled and while Rahman is no slouch, he is not exactly pantheon material! Lewis we won't talk about. Tua could crack, so could a lot of guys, As a person with a high regard for Ike....I don't see his fight with Tua as the watershed you do.

I do understand the web you are weaving and can respectfully disagree: It comes down to an analysis of Tua really doesn't it? I don't think Tua could crack as hard as Mike Tyson who he is often compared with.

Do you think Razor Ruddock could give Joe Louis fits? he took Mike Tyson's best shots. He was imo as limited as Tua....both guys were one punch jockeys with slow feet who people thought were going to lay to waste the rest of the division!

But I will commesurate with you Sugar....What happened to Ike is what happens to a lot of guys who might have become something special. The reasons don't really matter....Witherspoon got screwed by King, Nando tried to punch out Trinidad and then grew insolent, Ibuchi hd a personal problem. if Ike had carried on though.....

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I can't imagine that boxing fans here have such a low regard for Louis that they think Ike with a limited resume belongs in the same ring or a fight like this has any chance of being competitive. So often people see potential and confuse it with accomplishment. Personally I don't think Ike would beat a Tim Witherspoon or even a Ron Lyle, much less, a fighter like Joe Louis.

We are not talking about resumes, styles is what I'm basing this on. Ike would be bigger, stronger, had a chin, great stamina, great work rate,, throwing a 100 punches a round every round would cause Louis trouble. And for the record I too would take a prime Witherspoon but lyles gets laid out

[QUOTE=billeau2;14147256]

You seem to have a much higher regard for Tua than most. Rahman had Tu handled and while Rahman is no slouch, he is not exactly pantheon material! Lewis we won't talk about. Tua could crack, so could a lot of guys, As a person with a high regard for Ike....I don't see his fight with Tua as the watershed you do.

I do understand the web you are weaving and can respectfully disagree: It comes down to an analysis of Tua really doesn't it? I don't think Tua could crack as hard as Mike Tyson who he is often compared with.

Do you think Razor Ruddock could give Joe Louis fits? he took Mike Tyson's best shots. He was imo as limited as Tua....both guys were one punch jockeys with slow feet who people thought were going to lay to waste the rest of the division!

But I will commesurate with you Sugar....What happened to Ike is what happens to a lot of guys who might have become something special. The reasons don't really matter....Witherspoon got screwed by King, Nando tried to punch out Trinidad and then grew insolent, Ibuchi hd a personal problem. if Ike had carried on though.....

I'm not saying tau is that great,, he was very limited and showed vs the top guys, but he could hit like a mule, and Ike took it like it was nothing.. People act like Louis would wreck him with punches yet a super hard puncher like tau that hit harder than Louis couldnt even buckle him...
I just don't see how Ike gets stopped like Louis...


Once again I will ask the question, who on Louis' resume had the size and strength and endurance and chin that Ike had and threw 100 punches every round.. Louis never faced anyone like that, so I don't get how it's so easy to say that joe would punch him and stop Ike...

[dchampishere]

[QUOTE=Sugar Adam Ali;14147399]We are not talking about resumes, styles is what I'm basing this on. Ike would be bigger, stronger, had a chin, great stamina, great work rate,, throwing a 100 punches a round every round would cause Louis trouble. And for the record I too would take a prime Witherspoon but lyles gets laid out

I'm not saying tau is that great,, he was very limited and showed vs the top guys, but he could hit like a mule, and Ike took it like it was nothing.. People act like Louis would wreck him with punches yet a super hard puncher like tau that hit harder than Louis couldnt even buckle him...
I just don't see how Ike gets stopped like Louis...


Once again I will ask the question, who on Louis' resume had the size and strength and endurance and chin that Ike had and threw 100 punches every round.. Louis never faced anyone like that, so I don't get how it's so easy to say that joe would punch him and stop Ike...

I just have one thing to say, Tua was a a ok puncher nothing great and it seems you are basing your entire pick on Ike's fight with Tua.
If Tua could not catch you with his little leaping left hook a fighter with a good not great chin would be there all night with him.
None of the sparring partners in camp with us were punchers but after the first time someone took half a step backwards and shot their straight left when Ike was coming in and hurt him then everybody was doing it, so Ike's chin was far from stone.

[dchampishere]

Sorry Bill I wanted to quote Ali, I don't know how I did that.
I guess I should post more often.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

[QUOTE=dchampishere;14147560]

We are not talking about resumes, styles is what I'm basing this on. Ike would be bigger, stronger, had a chin, great stamina, great work rate,, throwing a 100 punches a round every round would cause Louis trouble. And for the record I too would take a prime Witherspoon but lyles gets laid out


I just have one thing to say, Tua was a a ok puncher nothing great and it seems you are basing your entire pick on Ike's fight with Tua.
If Tua could not catch you with his little leaping left hook a fighter with a good not great chin would be there all night with him.
None of the sparring partners in camp with us were punchers but after the first time someone took half a step backwards and shot their straight left when Ike was coming in and hurt him then everybody was doing it, so Ike's chin was far from stone.

I'm not going to try and debate you since you were in his camp, but all I'm going to say is that

1. U can say tau is an ok puncher but fact is he is basically universally recognized as a top 100 atg punchers, ring epsn, u name it, he is always rated very high historically in terms of punching power

2. U say if tau couldn't catch u with the leaping left hook,,, but irony is he caught Ike with that shot plus a lot more. Tua hit Ike with everything and could not hurt him...

3. May I ask what training camp for Ike you were in, which fight