Ike Ibeabuchi VS Joe Louis

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Imagine the superiority Roy Jones had at middleweight. Joe Louis had the same amazing skills and dominance at heavyweight. In his early days he was in an other dimension skill wise. I seriously doubt a guy that barely won on points against Tua would have a chance against one of the best ever.

What fighters on Louis' resume even compare to Ike?

Let's be real, Louis as great as he was, just like Roy jones, dominated over less than stellar opponents...

Ike was much tougher than anyone Louis fought.. Some like conn might have better skills but in terms of beatability, Ike is the toughest dude Louis would ever fight

[SN!PER]

The fighters of that generation trained to the bone and Joe was on a different level. Ike would never even see the punches coming, and those are the punches that do the most damage. I'm a big fan of Ike, but the experience and work ethic of Joe would've been too much for him. Boxing was the biggest sport in America in the times of Dempsey and Louis. They had better trainers, competition, sparring, everything. Plus you have a boxer posting here who sparred with Ike, Tua and Peter. If he says Ike would've lost this fight, I believe him.

[mickey malone]

What fighters on Louis' resume even compare to Ike?

Let's be real, Louis as great as he was, just like Roy jones, dominated over less than stellar opponents...

Ike was much tougher than anyone Louis fought.. Some like conn might have better skills but in terms of beatability, Ike is the toughest dude Louis would ever fight

How can we! (be real)
What was the best boxing history forum on the web, is rapidly becoming, more and more devoid of knowledge, to make way for the fantasists
Talk about, who to compare on Louis's resume.. Ike's resume is the fantasy channel playground. He beat Tua, Byrd and that's about it really
A rough comparison adds up to Louis having only beaten say, Galento and Bivins, without ever facing Charles, Walcott, Conn, Mauriello, JH Lewis, Harvey, Farr, Baer, Braddock, Carnera, B Baer, Abe Simon, McCoy, Nova, Godoy, Savold, Paychek and Schmeling.
Joe Louis won the undisputed hw championship, and defended it 25 times
Ibeabuchi on the other hand, didn't... Not sure exactly what was wrong with him, but for all we know, a black version of Golota sounds about right
All pure fantasy, ofcourse

[Ray Corso]

I took a week off from here because of whats happening with all the ****** fantasy BS! It won't stop until the moderators or someone in charge stops it!
I'll pop in here and there but if anyone thinks these kids have more to say than the members who think before they write then roll with it! Ray Corso

[billeau2]

I am also a big fan of Ike.....I think Sugar Ali is entitled to his opinion....he is not generally a "fantascist" haha.

If we take the version of Ike that we had....Imo there is no comparison to Louis. For most of the reasons stated on this thread. Even the worse scrubs at that time generally had some skills, Louis fought many other very talented fighters and....Especially when you watch old films if a young Louis....his hand speed was absolutely amazing.

Furthermore even the guys Ike beat were talented but had many exploitable holes in theirr game. Tua was exposed....people compare him to Tyson forgetting that Tua had no footspeed, no adaptability in the ring etc. And Byrd? another of the guys I adore as a fighter....but limited by nature so to say!

Here is where I would give some credit to you Sugar Ali: If Ike HAD developed he may have turned into an incredible talent. I could see that. Its an assumption for sure but Ike had the possability for greatness.

[mickey malone]

I am also a big fan of Ike.....I think Sugar Ali is entitled to his opinion....he is not generally a "fantascist" haha.

If we take the version of Ike that we had....Imo there is no comparison to Louis. For most of the reasons stated on this thread. Even the worse scrubs at that time generally had some skills, Louis fought many other very talented fighters and....Especially when you watch old films if a young Louis....his hand speed was absolutely amazing.

Furthermore even the guys Ike beat were talented but had many exploitable holes in theirr game. Tua was exposed....people compare him to Tyson forgetting that Tua had no footspeed, no adaptability in the ring etc. And Byrd? another of the guys I adore as a fighter....but limited by nature so to say!

Here is where I would give some credit to you Sugar Ali: If Ike HAD developed he may have turned into an incredible talent. I could see that. Its an assumption for sure but Ike had the possability for greatness.

Me too, and I like SAA, he's a knowledgeable guy
Have to say, I liked Byrd too.. Tricky southpaws are a fav of mine, and to have had one at hw is very novel indeed, but like a lot of Louis's opponents, was no more than a blown up smwt with skills to hang in with the big guys.. Conn, Farr, Bivins, Mauriello were all of similar stature,and although not southpaws, Bivins and Conn could switch.. And so could Ezzard Charles.. But could Ike? To stand any realistic chance of upsetting Louis, he'd need to, often, and quickly. Before being smashed in the mouth with 5oz gloves on

[mickey malone]

20 nobodies may be going a bit far. Ike defeated an undefeated David Tua and TKO'd an undefeated Chris Byrd. Dude was a beast with a ton of ability that never saw his full potential. He was also demon possessed, lol.

Beast with a brain disorder, beat tubby Tua (just) totally mauled a bewildered Byrd.. Louis did this week in week out, to all his sparring partners and everyone who got in the ring with him.. Ike just popped his head into the beginning of a weak era, cuckoo clock style, but with the clock shot, never to go again, it was all over in a flash really.. Does'nt deserve to be compared to an atg imo.. Powerful guy, had something, but not what you're thinking

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Ok, im getting alot of flak for my pick of ike over louis,,

All im trying to say is styles make fights, and i think louis would be hard pressed to defeat ike, due to ike's chin, stamina, punching power, and size and strength

Im not trying to discredit or disparge louis, its just a style match up that does not favor him IMO,, I feel that louis would be much better style-wise vs guys like dempesy, holyfield, wlad, and i think ike would be in trouble vs guys like vitali, holmes, lennox, foreman,

A poster, the guy in ike's training camp, made a good point saying that ike could walk into counter shots from louis,,, that is a great point, i can see that happening, but i can also see ike eventually catching louis after 8 or 9 rounds and stopping him much like max schmeling did to louis

Someone called ike the heavyweight version of valero, which grant it, seems to be a fair comparison, but i would just like to say that i feel ike is much more accomplished than valero,, Tua never reached his potential, but was much better fighter than anyone valero ever beat, and tua landed bombs on ike for 12 rounds and never dropped him, so i dont see how louis could hurt, drop and stop ike,,, Tua may not be great, but no doubt he was a huge puncher, and ike took those huge left hooks pretty well.. As for byrd, byrd was a very good fighter, and much much better than anyone valero has fought. Every generation has a guy like byrd, a "smaller" heavy that comes up and uses speed and skills to cancel out opponent's physical advantages.. Byrd, jimmy young, conn, charles, etc...
Ike destroyed byrd, something that even the klitchko's could not do till byrd was past his prime and wlad was entering his...
That is why i think more highly of ike then i do valero, and think ike deserves the benefit of the doubt in this case as not just being hype or some fantasy.. Ike actually proved it twice vs very credible opponents with 2 very different styles...

In terms of louis-ike,, i just dont see how louis could keep him off. I think ike could handle louis' power and eventually walk him down...
There is no indication on louis resume that makes me think he could deal with a huge puncher that drops a 100 punches around with great stamina, chin, and strength...

Im clearly just doing a head-2-head comparison and not using resume,, I just dont understand how everyone could think that louis would get in with ike, hit him with some punches and ike would fold.. I just dont see that as a very plausible scenario.
Louis had a good chin, not a great chin, he was a great puncher with single shots or combination, had good footwork, but the thing i think he lacks is the elusiveness on defense. I never thought of louis as a great defender, and the first max schmeling fight proved that, when max pinpointed flaws of louis' defense and exploited them.. Now Ike might not be smart like max to be able to take advantage of small flaws, but i do think louis would be there to be hit,, I dont think his skill set allows him to be a matador to ike's bull for the entire fight,, eventually they will trade shots, ike would eat some leather no doubt, but in the end i think ike overwhelms him and stops him in the later rounds...

No one yet has made a strong reason why louis beats up ike, except for the generic Joe louis was great, ike was a never-has-been type responses..
No one has really shown how louis would be able to handle the assault that ike would bring round after round after round

I think i have clearly laid out my logic behind picking ike,,,, Its just a style thing...

[billeau2]

Ok, im getting alot of flak for my pick of ike over louis,,

All im trying to say is styles make fights, and i think louis would be hard pressed to defeat ike, due to ike's chin, stamina, punching power, and size and strength

Im not trying to discredit or disparge louis, its just a style match up that does not favor him IMO,, I feel that louis would be much better style-wise vs guys like dempesy, holyfield, wlad, and i think ike would be in trouble vs guys like vitali, holmes, lennox, foreman,

A poster, the guy in ike's training camp, made a good point saying that ike could walk into counter shots from louis,,, that is a great point, i can see that happening, but i can also see ike eventually catching louis after 8 or 9 rounds and stopping him much like max schmeling did to louis

Someone called ike the heavyweight version of valero, which grant it, seems to be a fair comparison, but i would just like to say that i feel ike is much more accomplished than valero,, Tua never reached his potential, but was much better fighter than anyone valero ever beat, and tua landed bombs on ike for 12 rounds and never dropped him, so i dont see how louis could hurt, drop and stop ike,,, Tua may not be great, but no doubt he was a huge puncher, and ike took those huge left hooks pretty well.. As for byrd, byrd was a very good fighter, and much much better than anyone valero has fought. Every generation has a guy like byrd, a "smaller" heavy that comes up and uses speed and skills to cancel out opponent's physical advantages.. Byrd, jimmy young, conn, charles, etc...
Ike destroyed byrd, something that even the klitchko's could not do till byrd was past his prime and wlad was entering his...
That is why i think more highly of ike then i do valero, and think ike deserves the benefit of the doubt in this case as not just being hype or some fantasy.. Ike actually proved it twice vs very credible opponents with 2 very different styles...

In terms of louis-ike,, i just dont see how louis could keep him off. I think ike could handle louis' power and eventually walk him down...
There is no indication on louis resume that makes me think he could deal with a huge puncher that drops a 100 punches around with great stamina, chin, and strength...

Im clearly just doing a head-2-head comparison and not using resume,, I just dont understand how everyone could think that louis would get in with ike, hit him with some punches and ike would fold.. I just dont see that as a very plausible scenario.
Louis had a good chin, not a great chin, he was a great puncher with single shots or combination, had good footwork, but the thing i think he lacks is the elusiveness on defense. I never thought of louis as a great defender, and the first max schmeling fight proved that, when max pinpointed flaws of louis' defense and exploited them.. Now Ike might not be smart like max to be able to take advantage of small flaws, but i do think louis would be there to be hit,, I dont think his skill set allows him to be a matador to ike's bull for the entire fight,, eventually they will trade shots, ike would eat some leather no doubt, but in the end i think ike overwhelms him and stops him in the later rounds...

No one yet has made a strong reason why louis beats up ike, except for the generic Joe louis was great, ike was a never-has-been type responses..
No one has really shown how louis would be able to handle the assault that ike would bring round after round after round

I think i have clearly laid out my logic behind picking ike,,,, Its just a style thing...

The Schmeling fight was specific: Schmelling found a gap when louis threw his right and it became telegraphed. Louis could not adjust and Schmelling used this technical advantage. it was what it was. its not like Schmelling dismantled Louis piece by piece....he used one weakness and exploited it. This shows how good Schmelling was more than how bad Louis was. By the time it became evident what Schmelling as doing Louis had been hit repeatedly and was gunshy with his right. Louis was not exposed....rather his best weapon was taken from him, he may as well have fought Schmelling with one arm. This information may be an opinion but it happens to be the opinion of Schmelling!

The proof of course was the next fight. I doubt there is a heavyweight fighter since perhaps the Cuban olympic great heavyweights (T. Stephenson Savon) who had the technical knowledge to study tapes and apply so dilligent a strategy in the face of such a threat...Floyd has that kind of Arete (excellence) with technical details.

Tua was not the methodical puncher/combo puncher, nor did he get the extension on his shots that Louis did....Most people are saying that Louis punched hard enough to damage Ike...that is the argument. Galenta had a great chin....there comes a point where even a great chin does not prevent damage.

So the argument would be that Louis would hit Ike a lot and stop him because Louis, as one of the best punchers, against a guy who could punch and who had a good chin, would come out with a sore hand! while Ike would be the worse for that sore hand.

[StarshipTrooper]

The Schmeling fight was specific: Schmelling found a gap when louis threw his right and it became telegraphed. Louis could not adjust and Schmelling used this technical advantage. it was what it was. its not like Schmelling dismantled Louis piece by piece....he used one weakness and exploited it. This shows how good Schmelling was more than how bad Louis was. By the time it became evident what Schmelling as doing Louis had been hit repeatedly and was gunshy with his right. Louis was not exposed....rather his best weapon was taken from him, he may as well have fought Schmelling with one arm. This information may be an opinion but it happens to be the opinion of Schmelling!

The proof of course was the next fight. I doubt there is a heavyweight fighter since perhaps the Cuban olympic great heavyweights (T. Stephenson Savon) who had the technical knowledge to study tapes and apply so dilligent a strategy in the face of such a threat...Floyd has that kind of Arete (excellence) with technical details.

Tua was not the methodical puncher/combo puncher, nor did he get the extension on his shots that Louis did....Most people are saying that Louis punched hard enough to damage Ike...that is the argument. Galenta had a great chin....there comes a point where even a great chin does not prevent damage.

So the argument would be that Louis would hit Ike a lot and stop him because Louis, as one of the best punchers, against a guy who could punch and who had a good chin, would come out with a sore hand! while Ike would be the worse for that sore hand.

Well, specifically, as a young fighter Louis had a habit of dropping his left after jabbing. Schmeling exploited that by popping the counter right in over the top of Louis' left. It was NOT a career long flaw but rather one that was corrected after Schmeling exposed it.