the myth that todays fat HW's are bigger and stronger

[JAB5239]

Corrie Sanders is a big guy. Let's not bring him into it..

6'4" is not exceptionally big. There were plenty of guys in the 80's that size.

[Banderivets]

I'm not picking either side......but maybe I am...

It is not so much the weight as it is the height. Joe was barely 6 feet tall, which is difficult to put up against a disciplined 6'5"+ fighter that will stick to his game plan of jabbing for 12rds.

I can def see Joe getting in there and KOing Wlad, but it would be an interesting sight...

I do have a beef with guys who claim something along the lines of "Joe by KO no questions asked."

P.S. But even the height might not mater that much when the skill level is substantially different...I've sparred 5'6" 150 lb guys who made me look silly, while I was 6'1" 205...But this is due to the fact that he was a skilled talented AM, and I'm a nobody weekend warrior.

Problem with Wlad is that over the years he really chose not to fight anymore and simply stick to his gameplan which I think is very difficult to do for any fighter, at the end of the day any man wants to make it a scrap...but Wlads boring ass has reached this mindset that if he senses that he might loose a "fight" he simply wont fight and continues to box...Which I think is very difficult for his opponents to overcome.

[Cardinal Buck]

6'4" is not exceptionally big. There were plenty of guys in the 80's that size.

Are we talking about Joe Frazier or Tony Tucker?

[them_apples]

David Haye blew him self up to a 210. He went 12 with Wlad and even took his best punches.

Eddie Chambers is even smaller, if he was ripped I bet he'd be 190. He was on his way to going 12 with Wlad.

So Frazier, 205 ripped (224 soft) has no chance? especially when he's exceptionally good at closing the distance against taller opponents?

The K bros are taller but they don't have bigger fists or skulls. All the weight is from height.

look at the difficulty Vitali had with chisoras poor imitation of Frazier.

[JAB5239]

Are we talking about Joe Frazier or Tony Tucker?

There were a lot more than just Tucker, my friend. Many wasted their talent on *******, but they were skilled and in much better shape than most fighters today when they came to fight.

[res]

As I agree about Adamek and Haye, he would never beat either of the Klitschkoes. Too physically weak to push them around and not good chin enough to take their punches. He would go down and go down early. His punching power would also be less than it was against significantly smaller opponents and his height would be more of disadvantage.
Also, you must not have the best idea of how fighters are making weight if you're saying that 205 pounder could not go down to cruiserweight.

The fight would be tricky for both of them. Frazier's short height might work more against Klit than against himself. a 5' 11" fighter squatting to half that height while rapidly bobbing and weaving would be a major hassle for a 6' 7" Boxer puncher. In order to land on Frazier he has to get low which gives Frazier the chance to land on him, and a guy that tall trying to get that low won't have the greatest balance and position. His reach alone won't make up the difference. He only has a one inch reach advantage over Ali, who was shorter than Klitchko and yet still had to bend to reach a squatting, bobbing Frazier.

I don't think the Foreman fight proves that Frazier can't take a big heavyweight's punches, I don't know a heavyweight that could have taken that much sustained punishment from Foreman in such a short amount of time. Klit would not be landing on him with anything near that kind of consistency or as cleanly because of the stylistic differences in the two match ups.

[New England]

I'm surprised to see that lack of knowledge here. If you had any idea of how fighters are making weight you would know that 5 pounds is not even close to being a problem in ANY shape. Seriously, even Strawweights are gaining more than 5 pounds from the weigh-in on their 105 pounds body and their body fat is as low as it can be in human.


Klitschkos had more early knock-outs in their early days. Vitaly obviously lost his punching power with age and Wlad just get way more cautious with Stewart. Also not many fighters tried as hard as Joe definitely would. Frazier could maybe beat Wlad if he could take true heavyweight punch. You saw what happend when he met Foreman. That's the kind of punching power he'd have to deal with against Klitschkos. I don't believe he had Brewster or Peters chin against true heavyweight punchers.


Corrie Sanders was 6'4 southpaw big heavyweight puncher. I wouldn't count on Joe landing such a clean shot on Klitschkos and he did not have as much single punch power as Sanders either. Him being x classes above Sanders doesn't mean he can repeat what Sanders did. Just look how young Ali was getting hit by some southpaw bum in Germany I guess, being a southpaw in heavyweight is huge adventage when you can punch, always better chance at landing punches that your opponents are not used to see.
As for Brewster, I believe Klitschko when he says something was wrong with him in this fight. He just completely gassed at one point, had nothing left. Still, again. Brewster was physically stronger, punched harder and could take better punch than Joe. Also, he was 3 inches taller and had much longer arms. Frazier would never be able to take the kind of punishment that Brewster had to go through to later come back in this fight.


Not perhaps, for sure and he wouldn't even be any kind of huge cruiserweight. Just regular one.

i'm sorry man, i like you, but you really dont know what you are talking about when it comes to joe frazier. you're talking about lamon brewster like he's able to endure more than joe frazier and that's so far off. joe frazier could take hellish punishment, especially the kind of punishment you take in a klitschko fight (almost all jabs. he usualy doesnt even throw a right hand with any steam on it for many rounds) brewster was a warrior, but he's not joe frazier, man. you're talking about frazier like he was in his prime when he met prime george foreman (who could not fight less like a klitschko. in his comeback he fought more like a giant with a ponderous pace,) and he wasnt. foreman would have likely beat frazier when he was in his prime, but that's not because he has any similarities with klitshcko. it's because he was a brick house puncher and aggressor. the only thing he and klitschko have in common is one punch power.

brewster was three inches taller than frazier and only had four inches of reach. that's hardly an insurmountable gap in size.


brewster and sanders did both pose unique issues. sanders is the hardest hitting southpaw i've ever seen. that still doesnt mean that they can do something that joe frazier cannot simply on the merits that they are a few inches taller or have a few inches in extra reach.

there was something wrong with wladimir when he fought brewster.. he paced himself poorly, gassed out, and got the sh#t beat out of him. that's a silly excuse and i'm surprised that you're even making it.

and yes, 5 lbs can be absolutely impossible for a man to lose, in a sauna or otherwise.

brandon rios goes from a normal looking human being to a complete ghost when he loses his final two or three lbs to make LW.


if you're finding that everybody in this section doesn't agree with you you'll probably find that it's you who are wrong

again, you're saying that joe frazier has no chance and would be stopped early by a man that was stopped three times by complete nobodies in any historic sense simply because of the size, and that could not be more wrong.

[them_apples]

I'm surprised to see that lack of knowledge here. If you had any idea of how fighters are making weight you would know that 5 pounds is not even close to being a problem in ANY shape. Seriously, even Strawweights are gaining more than 5 pounds from the weigh-in on their 105 pounds body and their body fat is as low as it can be in human.


Klitschkos had more early knock-outs in their early days. Vitaly obviously lost his punching power with age and Wlad just get way more cautious with Stewart. Also not many fighters tried as hard as Joe definitely would. Frazier could maybe beat Wlad if he could take true heavyweight punch. You saw what happend when he met Foreman. That's the kind of punching power he'd have to deal with against Klitschkos. I don't believe he had Brewster or Peters chin against true heavyweight punchers.


Corrie Sanders was 6'4 southpaw big heavyweight puncher. I wouldn't count on Joe landing such a clean shot on Klitschkos and he did not have as much single punch power as Sanders either. Him being x classes above Sanders doesn't mean he can repeat what Sanders did. Just look how young Ali was getting hit by some southpaw bum in Germany I guess, being a southpaw in heavyweight is huge adventage when you can punch, always better chance at landing punches that your opponents are not used to see.
As for Brewster, I believe Klitschko when he says something was wrong with him in this fight. He just completely gassed at one point, had nothing left. Still, again. Brewster was physically stronger, punched harder and could take better punch than Joe. Also, he was 3 inches taller and had much longer arms. Frazier would never be able to take the kind of punishment that Brewster had to go through to later come back in this fight.


Not perhaps, for sure and he wouldn't even be any kind of huge cruiserweight. Just regular one.

the K bros weren't always 245 lbs. Look at the weight they started their career at. These are tall men yes, but not naturally massively built. This is why Wlad has a glass chin - He's built himself up. Frazier was 205 when he was younger.

Wladmir started his career around 220-225 lbs.

Thats his frame weight. The extra muscle gained is just bulk and might help him in the clinches.

Frazier stopped plenty of men over 220 lbs.

[StarshipTrooper]

It always comes down to worshiping size for some people

Poet

[New England]

It always comes down to worshiping size for some people

Poet

i think size is a huge advantage in a fight. i think wladimir's biggest advantage would be his ability to tie frazier up by keeping him below his shoulders and leaning on him

just not these ones. brewster's size compared to frazier is what allowed him to beat wladimir? his size is what allowed him to do what frazier could not?

joe frazier made his way inside on an only mildly faded ali
he's getting inside on wladimir


the kid needs to go back to the drawing board. it's pretty clear we've all been watching boxing at least ten years longer than he has, and there is no substitution for that.