Best fighters of the 90's?

[JAB5239]

Chavez had fought 80+ fights and was near the end of his carrear. Like I said there was a gradual decline with Chavez in his stamina and ability to cut of the ring. Chavez is hardly going to turn into some bum overnight.

Well if thats the was you want to look at it than Whitaker had over 250 fights by the time he met Chavez as JCC's amateur career started with low level professional fights just like his son has done. That isn't the way we judge prime though, is it? As long as you're physically and mentally near your peak you are considered prime. That is unarguably the case with Chavez vs Whitaker.

[JAB5239]

Roy Jones Jr
Pernell Whitaker
Lennox Lewis
James Toney
Oscar De La Hoya
Evander Holyfield
Julio Cesar Chavez
Bernard Hopkins
Felix Trinidad
Rid**** Bowe

I don't think Lewis can rank above any of those names with the exception of Bowe and possibly Hopkins, who's best wins came in the 2000's. Jmo.

[IronDanHamza]

thats because he was still a damn good fighter. but I wouldnt say that he was quite as good as he was at lightweight 5 years earlier.

lets not forget that Chavez was on his fourth weight class and after tons of fights, not to mention he would show more obvious signs of wear and tear only 4 months after the Whitaker loss.

Whitaker still beat an amazing fighter, and it might be the best single win of the 90s till today.

I still can't see the signs of decline, though.

Chavez had barely lost a round, in YEARS, when he fought Whitaker. He was utterly dominant for years before he fought Whitaker. It may be assumed he was on decline due to his amount of fights he had been in up to it. But I really can't see any signs on decline before he fought Whitaker, and if believe there was, what are they and when did he show them?

He may have shown some after the Whitaker fight but that isn't what were talking about.

[pacquia0]

Well if thats the was you want to look at it than Whitaker had over 250 fights by the time he met Chavez as JCC's amateur career started with low level professional fights just like his son has done. That isn't the way we judge prime though, is it? As long as you're physically and mentally near your peak you are considered prime. That is unarguably the case with Chavez vs Whitaker.

The amateurs and the pros are diferent things. Whitaker started with low level professional fights as well. Chavez wasnt near any of those peaks due to him losing his desire for the sport and not training as hard. Drug/alcohol addiction.

Obviously as a whitaker nuthugger you dont understand simple logic.

[Steak]

I still can't see the signs of decline, though.

Chavez had barely lost a round, in YEARS, when he fought Whitaker. He was utterly dominant for years before he fought Whitaker. It may be assumed he was on decline due to his amount of fights he had been in up to it. But I really can't see any signs on decline before he fought Whitaker, and if believe there was, what are they and when did he show them?

He may have shown some after the Whitaker fight but that isn't what were talking about.

this is just like the myth that biggest win=prime. Although he still looked(and was) a beast, you can tell by a few of his fights that he wasnt quite as sharp or had as good of late round stamina as he had at Lightweight.

most if not all people consider him past prime against Randall. and rightly so. this was only 4 months after the Whitaker fight. now, I will without a doubt say he was much better against Whitaker than he was against Randall, but to say he was at his absolute best only 4 months before he was past prime is a pretty damn big jump in a short period of time.

Chavez was starting to fade a little, but it wasnt much, and he was still an outstanding fighter. like I said, Whitaker's win over him might be the best single win since Hagler-Leonard.

I think the best term to use is 'on the slide'. still near the top, but he was on the way down.

[pacquia0]

RJJ over Toney(weight drained) might be better. As toney always had weight problems but was still able to peform.

Bowe over Holyfield is big also.

[$Bullsfam$]

Tito Trindad is the only person who can really go around and say I BEAT Pernell Whitaker and even then Whitaker had a broken jaw from early in the fight. I don't count his last fight where he got hurt.

Any other fight Whitaker has loss/draw'd he either got robbed or easily could have got the decision it was that close. He was obviously robbed against Rameriez, robbed against Chavez THAT FIGHT WAS NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE. And a lotta people including me thought he beat Oscar.

That's pretty amazing how Chavez one at the top of peoples P4P rankings and Pernell made him look like a journeyman. He might not of had a lot of power but he was easily one of the greatest body punchers of all time. He's such an underrated body puncher it's ridiculous. How many other defensive fighters can you say went to the body as well as he did?

[Pastrano]

Tito Trindad is the only person who can really go around and say I BEAT Pernell Whitaker and even then Whitaker had a broken jaw from early in the fight. I don't count his last fight where he got hurt.

Any other fight Whitaker has loss/draw'd he either got robbed or easily could have got the decision it was that close. He was obviously robbed against Rameriez, robbed against Chavez THAT FIGHT WAS NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE. And a lotta people including me thought he beat Oscar.

That's pretty amazing how Chavez one at the top of peoples P4P rankings and Pernell made him look like a journeyman. He might not of had a lot of power but he was easily one of the greatest body punchers of all time. He's such an underrated body puncher it's ridiculous. How many other defensive fighters can you say went to the body as well as he did?

Lets just get this over with, once and for all: HE DID NOT BEAT OSCAR! Seriously, WATCH the fight one more time and SCORE the rounds and then tell me if you can give that fight to Whitaker!? Coz I sure damn can't!

Peace...

Btw, I saw that Ramirez fight and tho I didn't score it it looked like Whitaker did very little and just kept running away. It can work against you of course.

[IronDanHamza]

this is just like the myth that biggest win=prime. Although he still looked(and was) a beast, you can tell by a few of his fights that he wasnt quite as sharp or had as good of late round stamina as he had at Lightweight.

most if not all people consider him past prime against Randall. and rightly so. this was only 4 months after the Whitaker fight. now, I will without a doubt say he was much better against Whitaker than he was against Randall, but to say he was at his absolute best only 4 months before he was past prime is a pretty damn big jump in a short period of time.

Chavez was starting to fade a little, but it wasnt much, and he was still an outstanding fighter. like I said, Whitaker's win over him might be the best single win since Hagler-Leonard.

I think the best term to use is 'on the slide'. still near the top, but he was on the way down.

Well, It's not the same as that, really. I mean, it's not like he had one dominant win against a good opponent before the Whitaker fight. He had endless, he was just as dominant as he was in his last 5 fights before Whitaker as he was at Lightweight, IMO.

Would you consider Chavez prime in 1990? Because I did and still do. And I can honestly say I don't see a difference between Chavez in 1993 from the one in 1990.

You touched on the idea that you can tell he wasn't as sharp or his stamina wasn't as good as he was at Lightweight. But, I don't see it, how could you tell that? I can't see where he showed that in his numerous fights up to fighting Whitaker.

I agree with you it was probably the best win of the 90's. I guess it's logical to suggest he may be nearing his decline. But I stick by the fact he didn't show signs of decline up to the fight with Whitaker.

[Steak]

Whiter basically did everyting well. He even had power when he needed it ie Hurtado, Lomeli, Nazario.

he was the best fighter of the 90s.